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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 6725167" data-attributes="member: 5890">Yeah, but fighter subclasses get a level 18 feature for their subclass, so I'm not all that fussed. If it seems like a big deal, bumping the subclass feature of a fighter with a rogue subclass to 18 wouldn't be difficult.Agreed, and noted when someone suggested the barbarian monk. I think in some cases we can come up with appropriate conversions (ki for instance has some amount of compatibility with spell slots, assuming that the elemental monk's abilities are at all sensibly priced)Interestingly enough, if you look at circle of the land, warlock patrons (which is their archetype - pact is just a variation of the base class) and sorceror paths, they all seem to line up ok. It seems that their additional spells known are being treated as a feature and they are losing some class features to get them.Yeah, covered. Ideally we should be able to find some sort of spell slot correlation for 'is raging'. I really like the idea of a druid spending spell slots or wildshapes to fuel totem warrior abilities. Take a look below for the equivalencies.Problematic, although they are trading off a limited base resource for an improved ability: one could argue that simply being unable to use the ability is not a great loss, as your class will have some alternative base resource instead that isn't depleted by your archetype. Loss of flexibility, but not a big hit to raw power. Take a look below for the equivalencies.Unlike bardic inspiration, base channel divinity usage is extremely limited. In this case moving a charge of channel divinity into the archetype instead of the base class seems like the right move.True - I think this one relies on modifying a very specific class ability almost exclusively, so it's not really going to be swappable to from a non-druid class. Unless you were to create lower level polymorph spells or something. Take a look below for the equivalencies.Four elements powers suggest that a spell slot is worth 1 + 1 per spell level ki points. Shadow way seems to get a 1 point discount (ie - 1 ki/spell level for darkness, darkvision, pass without trace). Personally I'd be inclined to believe that the four elements numbers are too high and should be lowered! But the higher numbers seem to work better within some limits.Open hand probably should grant flurry, because otherwise it doesn't work. I don't think that's too big a deal, given how limited flurry is.I'm not sure this is a huge problem. TBH, I consider it a fairly weak ability even when you're a ranger.This is kind of down to the weird way that bonus action works. In effect, every character has a bonus action, but only some characters have a way to use it. Cunning action doesn't really grant you a bonus action, it just gives you some ways to use it. Fast hands and mage hand legerdemain do as well. There's no real dependency between them. In other words, remove the 'granted by cunning action' wording from the archetype abilities, because it is unnecessary, and the abilities work fine.For spellcasters, solved by allowing expenditure of appropriate spell slots, which flows through to ki expenditure.... and so you're unlikely to take illusionist if you don't have illusion spells - no biggie. Savant isn't a big deal either, since money in 5th isn't a big deal. I don't think that wizard archetypes are losing abilities to gain it.I honestly am not seeing any balance issues with the rogue-fighter swaps. I think ranger swaps go into that mix pretty well as well.I think that sorceror/warlock archetype swaps work too. I even think that wizard goes into that mix without too much trouble.I think that for most of the monk ones I really need to build a character and see how they go.Right now the biggest issues I see are rage/inspiration/wild shape equivalence to other things.Rage starts out at something like 10 rounds per day and winds up at 30 rounds per day, assuming we average 5 round combats, which feels about right. It's also excluding level 20 where it becomes infinite.Since ki goes from 6 rounds/day to 60 rounds/day, the consumption of ki to fuel 'works during rage' powers is pretty close: you get the benefit of activating them when they will be useful, but if you have access to multiple powers you need to activate each one separately. It's more complex to go the other way though - you gain 1 point of ki per 2 rounds of raging maybe?Inspiration has (roughly, assuming you pump cha) 3 shots from 1st to 3rd , 4 at 4th, then ~12 at 5th, 15 at 8th, and then at 20th it increases to ~20 shots. So 2-3 ki per inspiration.Wild shape starts at ~6 hours per day and goes up to 60 hours per day at 20th. But the value of choosing a form is far, far higher than the ability to stay in a form for a long duration, and you get ~6 shifts per day, period. Which suggests that shapeshifting costs half your level in ki and lasts for half your level in hours.So... a 3rd level wolf totem warrior bard gets 3 inspirations per day, can buy 2 rounds of advantage for his friends by spending one, use beast sense and speak to animals as rituals, cast level 1 and 2 bard spells, gets his jack of all trades bonus and gives song of rest.A 3rd level ranger of the moon could turn his 3 1st level spells -> 6 ki -> 3 shapeshifts, assuming we round the cost up to 2 ki for 2 hours.A 17th level wizard of the open hand can switch out all of his spell slots for 113 points of ki. That seems problematic. OTOH, you've got wizard hit points and only a few of the monk's defenses, and you're in melee combat if you want to spend them, and your unarmed attack is fairly weak. Well, until you back it up with quivering palm (which you can basically do every single hit). That said, an open hand monk can almost do that anyway.I think as long as you stick to converting only for resources that are lacked, then you won't hit too many problems. I think that allowing a druid to convert his wildshapes to spell slots or vice versa might be bad. And as we see from the wizard conversion, limiting conversions to match the limits of the original class might be a good safety measure (ie - you can't convert to get more than 20 ki per short rest, or 60 rage uses per day etc).</blockquote>

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