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<blockquote data-quote="BlivetWidget" data-source="post: 7635644" data-attributes="member: 6912801">I think it's generally recognized that tiny objects are the optimal target for the Animate Objects spell (beating out small objects for their higher AC and Dex, plus the wizard's ability of simply upend a pouch of coins / ball bearings / caltrops and have instant access to a bunch of tiny objects).&nbsp; The gameplay downside is that adding 10 creatures to the combat, each with its own initiative and position and attack... can bog things down a lot.&nbsp; There are unfortunately no rules for creating swarms in the DMG, but could we extrapolate some ideas?[CODE]Tiny construct per Animated ObjectsHP:&nbsp; &nbsp; 20Speed:&nbsp;&nbsp; fly 30Str:&nbsp; &nbsp; 4Dex:&nbsp; &nbsp; 18Con:&nbsp; &nbsp; 10Int:&nbsp; &nbsp; 3Wis:&nbsp; &nbsp; 3Cha:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1Senses:&nbsp; &nbsp; blindsight 30 ft, passive perception 6Damage Resistances:&nbsp; &nbsp; NoneCondition Immunities:&nbsp; &nbsp; NoneBonus to hit:&nbsp; &nbsp; 8Damage:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1d4 + 41/2 health damage:&nbsp; &nbsp; Other:&nbsp; &nbsp; None[/CODE]Being constructs, I think they should probably have some condition immunities, but it's not specified so I left them out.Now for swarms, it looks like they generally use the same stat block as the original creature, with the following changes:Increase HP (by how much is hard to say, the number of creatures is ambiguous) - let's say multiply by number of creatures.Str x 4.Increase to-hit bonus (looks like +2 is fairly common.&nbsp; Rat swarm is +2, poisonous snake swarm is +2, bat swarm is +4, raven swarm is +0).Increase damage (let's say by 75%.&nbsp; They will do less damage at 100% health and more damage at 51% health than they would as individuals).Add resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, slashing.Add condition immunities to charmed, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, prone, restrained, stunned (fitting for constructs anyway).They also lose 1/2 their damage output at 1/2 health.So that leads to:[CODE]&nbsp; &nbsp; Idea: Animated Swarm of 10 Tiny Objectssize:&nbsp; &nbsp; mediumAC:&nbsp; &nbsp; 18HP:&nbsp; &nbsp; 200Speed:&nbsp; &nbsp; fly 30Str:&nbsp; &nbsp; 16Dex:&nbsp; &nbsp; 18Con:&nbsp; &nbsp; 10Int:&nbsp; &nbsp; 3Wis:&nbsp; &nbsp; 3Cha:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1Senses:&nbsp; &nbsp; Damage Resistances:&nbsp; &nbsp; bludgeoning, piercing, slashingCondition Immunities:&nbsp; &nbsp; charmed, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, prone, restrained, stunnedBonus to hit:&nbsp; &nbsp; 10Damage:&nbsp; &nbsp; 8d4 + 281/2 health damage:&nbsp; &nbsp; 4d4 + 14Other:&nbsp; &nbsp; Swarm. The swarm can occupy another creature's space and vice versa, and the swarm can move through any opening large enough for a Tiny object. The swarm can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points.[/CODE]Thoughts?&nbsp; Do you think the swarm is better or worse than 10 of the original creatures? If you don't like it, what would you change with the formula?&nbsp; Remember, the goal here so to create a single creature with the same effectiveness as 10 of the original creatures while being less cumbersome.&nbsp; I recognize that the cumbersome nature is one of their heavy tactical advantages, given the nature of action economy.&nbsp; So I feel like the swarm is underpowered but fairish and I'm interested to hear your thoughts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BlivetWidget, post: 7635644, member: 6912801"] I think it's generally recognized that tiny objects are the optimal target for the Animate Objects spell (beating out small objects for their higher AC and Dex, plus the wizard's ability of simply upend a pouch of coins / ball bearings / caltrops and have instant access to a bunch of tiny objects). The gameplay downside is that adding 10 creatures to the combat, each with its own initiative and position and attack... can bog things down a lot. There are unfortunately no rules for creating swarms in the DMG, but could we extrapolate some ideas? [CODE] Tiny construct per Animated Objects HP: 20 Speed: fly 30 Str: 4 Dex: 18 Con: 10 Int: 3 Wis: 3 Cha: 1 Senses: blindsight 30 ft, passive perception 6 Damage Resistances: None Condition Immunities: None Bonus to hit: 8 Damage: 1d4 + 4 1/2 health damage: Other: None[/CODE] Being constructs, I think they should probably have some condition immunities, but it's not specified so I left them out. Now for swarms, it looks like they generally use the same stat block as the original creature, with the following changes: Increase HP (by how much is hard to say, the number of creatures is ambiguous) - let's say multiply by number of creatures. Str x 4. Increase to-hit bonus (looks like +2 is fairly common. Rat swarm is +2, poisonous snake swarm is +2, bat swarm is +4, raven swarm is +0). Increase damage (let's say by 75%. They will do less damage at 100% health and more damage at 51% health than they would as individuals). Add resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, slashing. Add condition immunities to charmed, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, prone, restrained, stunned (fitting for constructs anyway). They also lose 1/2 their damage output at 1/2 health. So that leads to: [CODE] Idea: Animated Swarm of 10 Tiny Objects size: medium AC: 18 HP: 200 Speed: fly 30 Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 10 Int: 3 Wis: 3 Cha: 1 Senses: Damage Resistances: bludgeoning, piercing, slashing Condition Immunities: charmed, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, prone, restrained, stunned Bonus to hit: 10 Damage: 8d4 + 28 1/2 health damage: 4d4 + 14 Other: Swarm. The swarm can occupy another creature's space and vice versa, and the swarm can move through any opening large enough for a Tiny object. The swarm can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points.[/CODE] Thoughts? Do you think the swarm is better or worse than 10 of the original creatures? If you don't like it, what would you change with the formula? Remember, the goal here so to create a single creature with the same effectiveness as 10 of the original creatures while being less cumbersome. I recognize that the cumbersome nature is one of their heavy tactical advantages, given the nature of action economy. So I feel like the swarm is underpowered but fairish and I'm interested to hear your thoughts. [/QUOTE]

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