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<blockquote data-quote="BlivetWidget" data-source="post: 7635882" data-attributes="member: 6912801">Yes, I definitely agree with most of your thoughts! I would expect it to take 2 fireballs to destroy the tiny objects entirely though, since they are quite dexterous (many will probably pass their save).&nbsp; And there would be collateral damage, since some of the objects might be in amongst foes by the time someone can drop a fireball on them, and all would definitely be by the time a second fireball can be used.&nbsp; The fireball would need to be cast at level 5 to be statistically likely to drop them in one go (which isn't a terribly good use of a spell slot).As for strengths, the resistance to AoE seems to just come with the territory of swarm creatures.&nbsp; Not sure if there's a solution to this, or if there even needs to be one.As for weaknesses, the loss of action economy in compressing them into a single creature is sort of in the same boat.&nbsp; But I think we could solve the damage swing issue by splitting the attack into a multiattack.&nbsp; In my experience, attacks resolve much more quickly than the rest of the actions.&nbsp; We could go with any number, but since there are already creatures with 4 multiattacks, how about something like this (I also fixed a typo, most swarms are 4x stronger than baseline):[CODE]Idea: Animated Swarm of 10 Tiny Objectssize:&nbsp; &nbsp; mediumAC:&nbsp; &nbsp; 18HP:&nbsp; &nbsp; 200Speed:&nbsp; &nbsp; fly 30Str:&nbsp; &nbsp; 16Dex:&nbsp; &nbsp; 18Con:&nbsp; &nbsp; 10Int:&nbsp; &nbsp; 3Wis:&nbsp; &nbsp; 3Cha:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1Senses:&nbsp; &nbsp; blindsight 30 ft, passive perception 6Damage Resistances:&nbsp; &nbsp; bludgeoning, piercing, slashingCondition Immunities:&nbsp; &nbsp; charmed, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, prone, restrained, stunnedChallenge:&nbsp; &nbsp; Bonus to hit:&nbsp; &nbsp; 10Damage:&nbsp; &nbsp; multiattack, 4 x (2d4 + 7)1/2 health damage:&nbsp; &nbsp; multiattack, 2 x (2d4 + 7)Other:&nbsp; &nbsp; Swarm. The swarm can occupy another creature's space and vice versa, and the swarm can move through any opening large enough for a Tiny object. The swarm can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points.[/CODE]Thanks, I did look at those.&nbsp; How well has this rule worked for you, in your experience?&nbsp; For me, it solves the wrong part of the problem: attack rolls are the fastest, easiest part of the round, especially if they are all against the same target.&nbsp; The time consuming part is task switching between way more creatures, controlling movement, checking for and/or resolving attacks of opportunity for an extra 10 creatures and any creatures they move past/away from or that moves past/away from them, accounting for LOS to and from them, determining to-hit for every target, etc.&nbsp; A swarm type creature compresses all this into one, much more manageable nugget.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BlivetWidget, post: 7635882, member: 6912801"] Yes, I definitely agree with most of your thoughts! I would expect it to take 2 fireballs to destroy the tiny objects entirely though, since they are quite dexterous (many will probably pass their save). And there would be collateral damage, since some of the objects might be in amongst foes by the time someone can drop a fireball on them, and all would definitely be by the time a second fireball can be used. The fireball would need to be cast at level 5 to be statistically likely to drop them in one go (which isn't a terribly good use of a spell slot). As for strengths, the resistance to AoE seems to just come with the territory of swarm creatures. Not sure if there's a solution to this, or if there even needs to be one. As for weaknesses, the loss of action economy in compressing them into a single creature is sort of in the same boat. But I think we could solve the damage swing issue by splitting the attack into a multiattack. In my experience, attacks resolve much more quickly than the rest of the actions. We could go with any number, but since there are already creatures with 4 multiattacks, how about something like this (I also fixed a typo, most swarms are 4x stronger than baseline): [CODE]Idea: Animated Swarm of 10 Tiny Objectssize: medium AC: 18 HP: 200 Speed: fly 30 Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 10 Int: 3 Wis: 3 Cha: 1 Senses: blindsight 30 ft, passive perception 6 Damage Resistances: bludgeoning, piercing, slashing Condition Immunities: charmed, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, prone, restrained, stunned Challenge: Bonus to hit: 10 Damage: multiattack, 4 x (2d4 + 7) 1/2 health damage: multiattack, 2 x (2d4 + 7) Other: Swarm. The swarm can occupy another creature's space and vice versa, and the swarm can move through any opening large enough for a Tiny object. The swarm can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points. [/CODE] Thanks, I did look at those. How well has this rule worked for you, in your experience? For me, it solves the wrong part of the problem: attack rolls are the fastest, easiest part of the round, especially if they are all against the same target. The time consuming part is task switching between way more creatures, controlling movement, checking for and/or resolving attacks of opportunity for an extra 10 creatures and any creatures they move past/away from or that moves past/away from them, accounting for LOS to and from them, determining to-hit for every target, etc. A swarm type creature compresses all this into one, much more manageable nugget. [/QUOTE]

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