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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 5992054" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Well, the good news is they seem to be attempting to provide means for the Fighter to properly capture this archetype. - Fighter does not just presuppose Strength as primary attribute.&nbsp; Both Dexterity and Constitution can be selected at character creation.- Duelist is explicitly a &quot;Fighting Style&quot; within the Fighter's build mechanics.While these are strong indicators of support for the style, as ever, there are concerns that the One-handed Duelist/Fencing&nbsp; style will be sub-optimal and marginalized to irrelevancy due to (continued) lack of&nbsp; support.&nbsp; Within this playtest material, I do not see the means embedded within the Fighter&nbsp; Maneuver/Combat Superiority framework to properly express this style as a&nbsp; mechanically relevant combat style.&nbsp; Without proper support to up the&nbsp; AC of the light-armored fighter (which still seems to presuppose Heavy&nbsp; Armor as primary means of damage mitigation), which needs to be inherent in the class build mechanics (to avoid feat taxation), the Duelist Fighter is borne out as (relative to the other options) ill-equipped infantry/front-line warriors.&nbsp; In order to legitimize the style, there will need to be siloed maneuvers (that other styles&nbsp; don't get access to) within the Fencing style that give it extremely potent:A) Melee Control - Negative status effects up to and including afflicting negatives to attack rolls and outright action denial.&nbsp; This would provide intangible proxy defense (rather than passive AC).B) Tactical Mobility - Shifting, acrobatics and manipulation of opponents (slide effects) to move out of danger to avoid being swarmed and possibly induce action denial through forcing enemy into bad positions/terrain.&nbsp; Again, this would provide intangible proxy defense (rather than passive AC) and would help the style neutralize its AC deficiencies in &quot;Swarm Melees&quot; or &quot;Mass Combats&quot;.C) Immediate Action Options - Ripostes, damage avoidance via mobility,&nbsp;&nbsp; perhaps forcing disadvantage on attack rolls.&nbsp; Another option here that could leverage Opportunity Attack mechanics would be to give the Fencing style &quot;Reach 10&quot; to reflect the lightning quick lunging attacks that artificially inflate the reach of Fencers.&nbsp; These would provide Offense, Defense, and Melee Control.If Swashbucklers/Duelists/Fencers are not going to have the requisite passive AC to be front-line combatants, then some of A thru C will be required to bulwark the style towards competitiveness with the other styles.&nbsp; Finally, I would still like to see a Rogue Scheme (along with a feat tree) that allows the class to emulate this archetype to one degree or another.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 5992054, member: 6696971"] Well, the good news is they seem to be attempting to provide means for the Fighter to properly capture this archetype. - Fighter does not just presuppose Strength as primary attribute. Both Dexterity and Constitution can be selected at character creation. - Duelist is explicitly a "Fighting Style" within the Fighter's build mechanics. While these are strong indicators of support for the style, as ever, there are concerns that the One-handed Duelist/Fencing style will be sub-optimal and marginalized to irrelevancy due to (continued) lack of support. Within this playtest material, I do not see the means embedded within the Fighter Maneuver/Combat Superiority framework to properly express this style as a mechanically relevant combat style. Without proper support to up the AC of the light-armored fighter (which still seems to presuppose Heavy Armor as primary means of damage mitigation), which needs to be inherent in the class build mechanics (to avoid feat taxation), the Duelist Fighter is borne out as (relative to the other options) ill-equipped infantry/front-line warriors. In order to legitimize the style, there will need to be siloed maneuvers (that other styles don't get access to) within the Fencing style that give it extremely potent: A) Melee Control - Negative status effects up to and including afflicting negatives to attack rolls and outright action denial. This would provide intangible proxy defense (rather than passive AC). B) Tactical Mobility - Shifting, acrobatics and manipulation of opponents (slide effects) to move out of danger to avoid being swarmed and possibly induce action denial through forcing enemy into bad positions/terrain. Again, this would provide intangible proxy defense (rather than passive AC) and would help the style neutralize its AC deficiencies in "Swarm Melees" or "Mass Combats". C) Immediate Action Options - Ripostes, damage avoidance via mobility, perhaps forcing disadvantage on attack rolls. Another option here that could leverage Opportunity Attack mechanics would be to give the Fencing style "Reach 10" to reflect the lightning quick lunging attacks that artificially inflate the reach of Fencers. These would provide Offense, Defense, and Melee Control. If Swashbucklers/Duelists/Fencers are not going to have the requisite passive AC to be front-line combatants, then some of A thru C will be required to bulwark the style towards competitiveness with the other styles. Finally, I would still like to see a Rogue Scheme (along with a feat tree) that allows the class to emulate this archetype to one degree or another. [/QUOTE]

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