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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Korak" data-source="post: 1401939" data-attributes="member: 9781">The builds referenced in this thread are not using the shields as weapons (not optimally anyway).  They are all talking about shield and armor spec feats to raise ac, and ways to raise ac by taking attack penalties.  Stacking all those things together = pathetic offensive output that is easy to ignore.  Furthermore, your situation is a bit oversimplified.  If the fight is in a relatively enclosed space and the party casters are appropriately trained in combat maneuvers (they know where to stand), then you can minimize the weaknesses of the slow movement, low to moderate offense, high ac tank.  If however, the fight is outdoors, or involving opponents with high movement/tumble, or good reach, they can eat the casters while staying out of the full attack range of the 20' move tank (or even the move and attack range if terrain is rough enough - and no charges from the tank because of intervening PCs or difficult terrain).Even so, I like the sword and board guy built as a two weapon fighter.  I prefer him with a mithril bp or mithril chain shirt to keep movement high, as positioning is vital.  This makes more sense anyway as you'll need a high dexterity for the two weapon fighting feats.  Mix in some rog4 for sneak attack and uncanny dodge to keep your dex ac when flat footed, or some Bbn2 for fast movement and UD, or both if you feel like giving up the feats.  The higher damage output afforded by two weapon fighting over a single weapon is vital in giving the DM a reason to fight the tank instead of passing him by.My guy, for example is Hum Rng6.  It is far from optimal, but I wanted to try one, and the skills are needed by the party.H: EWP(bastard sword)1: WF(bastard sword)R1: TrackR2: Two Weapon Fighting3: Improved Shield BashR3: Endurace6: Shield ChargeR6: Improved Two Weapon FightingWhen I can afford a sunblade, I am going to use it as my offhand weapon and switch to a heavy spiked shield from a light spiked shield to increase AC and damage.  This build gives me decent ac, but if I were to optomize it, I might do something like this:Human Ftr6H: Two Weapon Fighting1: Improved Shield BashF1: DodgeF2: Mobility3: Combat ExpertiseF4: Shield Charge6: Improved Two Weapon FightingF6: Shield SlamHeavy Spiked Shield is primary weapon, short sword (or kukri, or light pick) is offhand weapon.  Future feats are spring attack, elusive target, weapon focus.  Another fun synergy is the combination of shield charge with ride-by attack.  That would only be useful in primarily outdoor campaigns, but still fun to consider.  Food for thought, though I think very little of this applies to the original poster's question... sorry.</blockquote>

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