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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Doctor Futurity" data-source="post: 1526411" data-attributes="member: 10738">Hmm. Glad no one told me I couldn't run a mythic-style of play with the ELH in my 23 year-old D&D campaign before I started running it 3 years ago....would have been very akward, trying to explain how all the great game sessions didn't really happen!All I've really gotten out of your statement is that a DM who wants to run a mythic, high-level campaign with the ELH will need to do a little work, and that the focus of opposition for the PCs should not come from beating up the conventional, lower level NPCs of the campaign who (by definition) should not be the challenge or principle opposition of the mythic characters. In fact, I think Epic Level Gaming only works when you run it as a mythic style, and that the reason it doesn't seem to work for you is because you're trying to do it as a superhero game.....which really would cause it to break down. A world of superheroes, actually, is not that different from a mythic game, but it does assume that the PCs are just normal Joes (i.e. not trying to become avatars or saviors of man or somesuch) with great powers, battling continuously greater evils. A mythic game gives the PCs a purpose: to right a great wrong in the mythology or the campaign, to petition the planar realms  for godhood, or find out what the secret truth of reality is, or somesuch. In my mythic campaign, the characters have been questing with characters who've been going on for 12+ years of gaming now, and after hitting 20th level, began a pilgrimage to the site of a god which sarificed himself to stop an ancient apocalypse. Along the way, one PC became an avatar and discovered that, with a century or two of work, he could become a demiurge and replace the dead god. The other PCs discovered epic quests, like saving the fae realms from a damnable evil, stopping the fould dmeon-god which plagues a nearby nation, and so forth.....all scaled just fine, and required no change to the existing campaign structure or NPCs.....rather, the challenges were drawn from things which regular PCs would never have a change of dealing with except by DM fiat.   I could have introduced the demon god to a bunch of low-level PCs, but they would have had to find a relic, ceremony, or some other device to stop the god's summoning or banish it; the deity would not be the source of challenge, but it's summoning minions. In an Epic level scenario, the demon-god becomes the nemesis, it's minions can be epic-level, and the PCs can have a serious row without a "deus ex machina" in the works to save them (unless the villains are truly overpowering...and in the ELH, some definitely are). In the end, I have to say that, in all honesty, I would have retired my players' characters at 20th level if the Epic level book hadn't come out, and even then I was suspicious that it was going to be too difficult to design challenging scenarios. The ELH changed that, and helped define the newer, more epic focus of the campaign. If you have players who seem to miss the point of EL gaming, by, for example, constantly persecuting the low-level NPCs of your campaign, then I would suggest that they have missed the point of the new campaign focus. As DM, I would say it's your job to steer the PCs away from the more petty world concerns and get them focused on the more Herculean focus of their new careers. It's all a matter of misconceptions: the ELH works great, but you need to understand the kind of game you need to run with it. Dead gods, ghoul paragons, epic quests for the gods, and the search for the truth of the universe are all good epic level ideas. Local king Evilman, run of the mill liches, and your local dimestore evil priest should quake in their boots when the PCs come knocking, and quickly look for that new summoning scroll they were given by their dark god, who told them only to use it in the presence of the Chosen Ones.....And I guess, in the end, that that's the real secret to Epic level gaming: understanding that it's all about the PCs now, they are the motivating force and reason for the campaign. If you've been playing with these guys long enough to get them to 20th level, then it shouldn't be to much of a stretch to start thinking really big and give them a taste of greatness.</blockquote>

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