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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Olgar Shiverstone" data-source="post: 3762701" data-attributes="member: 5868">If you mean spells per day, I'd agree .. but not spells known.  The fourth level battle sorcerer, for example, still only knows 2 1st-level and 1 2d level spell.  At sixth level, when third level spells are gained, it's 3/1/1.  I'd personally prefer a few more spells known in the lower level progression to provide flexibility.Using wizard progression and 3/4 spellcasting (so you get 15 levels in 20) and I'd like it.So perhaps something like (admittedly 3.5 mechanics since we don't know much about 4E):Ends up with BAB +15 (+2 to hit and +4 damage from bonus feats, though) and CL 15 with 8th level spells (assuming a wizard progression)arriving at level 20.  Not as "optimal" BAB and CL-wise as some of the warrior-mage paths that can be done with prestige classes, but there should be enough perqs to encourage sticking with the same class progression.It probably needs its ability list tweaked as it is a bit more generous than duskblade (I don't have my PHB II handy).  Free Weapon Focus/Specialization make up some for the medium BAB over time, but only with a single weapon.  There's probably some re-balancing that should be done, too, to reduce the amount of breakage that could occur when mixed with certain feats or prestige classes.  For example, the +1 arcane spellcastign class should only give spell progression as a wiz/sorc, but the spell levels in warrior-mage shouldn't stack with those from wizard or sorcerer, nor should the ASF reduction work with pure wizard or sorcerer levels, to prevent a 2-3-level dip in the class followed by wiz/sorc levels.  But then a highly competent power-gamer can probably break any set of mechanics, so it may not be worth worrying about too much.For 4E ... tweak the spell progression to capture whatever a new wizard looks like breaking down at will, per encounter, and per day abilities.Edit: added ability explanations and shifted spellcasting progression slightly to avoid dipping.Balance comparison:[sblock]Vs. Fighter:- Lower HD (-21 HP on average)- Lower BAB (gives up +5 BAB and 1 iterative attack)- Worse Fort, better Will save- Fewer feats/abilities with less flexibility (4 combat feats, 3 arcane feats, 2 special abilities that scale vs. 11 fighter bonus feats)- Less weapon flexibility (only able to specialize in a single weapon)- Broader skill list- No heavy armor or tower shield- SpellcastingOverall: Probably mroe attractive than a single-classed fighter.Vs. Wizard (assumes wizard progression)- Better HD (+44 HP on average)- Better BAB (+5 BAB, third iterative attack)- Same Save- 2 fewer arcane feat options, but 4 combat feats and two special abilities including casting in armor- Armor proficiency and martial weapon prof- Slower spellcasting progression- -5 caster levels, no 9th level spell access- No familiar- Broader skill listOverall, probably balanced against a single-classed wizardVs. Sorcerer (assumes sorcerer progression)- Better HD (+44 HP on average)- Better BAB (+5 BAB, third iterative attack)- Same Save- Adds 3 arcane feats, but 4 combat feats and two special abilities including casting in armor- Armor proficiency and martial weapon prof- Slower spellcasting progression- -5 caster levels, no 8th or 9th level spell access- No familiar- Broader skill listOverall: probably balanced, but a bit more attractive compared to pure sorcerer ve pure wizardVs. Battle Sorcerer assumes sorcerer progression- Same HD, BAB, Saves- Slightly broader skill list- Adds medium armor and all martial weapons- Adds 3 arcane feats, 4 combat feats, 2 special abilities- No familiar- More spells known/per day, but slower progression to higher level spells- -5 caster levels; no 8th/9th level spellsOverall: probably balanced, depending on the value of the 5 caster levels vs the additional abilities.Vs. Cleric- Same BAB- Same HD- Worse Saves- -5 CL, no 9th level spells- No domains or turn undead, (3 special abilities cleric vs 4 combat feat, 3 arcane feats, 2 special abilities)- No heavy armor proficiency- Martial weapon proficiency- Weapon focus/specialization- Vastly different spell list- Both cast in armor (except heavy for the warrior-mage)Overall: Cleric has roughly equivalent melee abilities and more spell development so is probably more powerful in the end, but the WM can make up in blasting ability.  Close match.Vs. Duskblade- Same HD- Worse BAB (-5 BAB and one less iterative attack), made up slightly by focus feats- Worse Saves- No neavy armor proficiency- Similar casting in armor, but gained later- No quick cast ability or spell power (2 arcane feats probably balanced against spell power)- Broader spell list, higher level spells, and quicker access to higher level spells, but fewer spells per day and down 5 caster levels- Same arcane chanelling except not limited to melee, but initial ability gained later- Virtually identical skill listOverall: Better in net spellcasting power & flexibility but worse in focused melee and integrated spell/melee ability.  Pretty close overall.Vs. Fighter10/Wizard10 multiclass (assumes wizard progression)- Same BAB- Better Will, worse Fort save- Better HP on average (~+20)- No heavy armor/tower shield- +5 Caster levels & +3 spell levels- Equal feat/special abilities -- including highly useful casting in armor- No familiarOverall: Much better than the pure multiclass -- but the pure multiclass is as sub-optimal as you can get.Vs. Optimized Fighter/Wizard/PrC mix- Lower BAB (best mixes get +17-+18- Lower caster level (best mixes get 17-18 with 9th level spells)- Weapon Specialization- Similar special abilities (depends on the specific PrC mix)- Similar, perhaps better HD (depends on specific PrC mix)- Worse savesOverall: Weaker than a 20-level fully min-maxed PrC mix, but better integrated.[/sblock]Edit 2: Posted to the <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3762797#post3762797" target="_blank">House Rules Forum</a> for more discussion of this class idea specifically.</blockquote>

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