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<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 3764988" data-attributes="member: 5100">Actually, I assume that the priest is archetypal because of the implied polytheistic setting in D&amp;D.In a psuedo-Medieval setting that is a bit lighter on the &quot;pseudo&quot;, the paladin is much more iconic.&nbsp; That's not what we have.&nbsp; D&amp;D has moved, socially, quite a bit earlier to large Greco-Roman cities, temple districts, etc.Either way, the cleric, as written, isn't archetypal, iconic, or otherwise representative of much of anything.&nbsp; It's a wart of beef.&nbsp; It fails to represent any sort of general priest, instead leaving that to the role of less proficient (in every way) adepts.&nbsp; It shoe-horns any PC priest into a warrior mold.&nbsp; Worst of all, the healer aspect of the class has so ingrained itself into the body of D&amp;D rules that it sucks down a broad gamut of play.&nbsp; People get hurt, so you need a healing mechanism for those desperate combats and so you don't feel stupid for facing the next battle with a gaping chest wound.&nbsp; The cleric is the only class that really heals well, so that's what is expected of it.&nbsp; Because good healing is a superior tactic to inferior healing, groups make heavy efforts to have a cleric with them and designers have to balance damage to assume a certain level of healing.&nbsp; That requires clerics to heal that level of damage or more.&nbsp; Which also makes it unreasonable to continue adventuring after your cleric has dumped all his healing into you.&nbsp; Which results in two-hour adventuring days.&nbsp; Which spawns a boatload of fixes, none of which seem to actually address this whole crazy healing/health thing.&nbsp; Thus, 4E.&nbsp; If 4E doesn't fix the way healing works at a pretty fundamental level, we'll end up seeing a lot of the same issues in a couple of years.&nbsp; I can't remember the last time my players stopped the day because the wizard ran out of spells (though, I'm sure they have).&nbsp; More often, they stop because the healer is done.Anyway, the shorter response to what you said is that the cleric isn't inherently an archetype in itself.&nbsp; But, in the implied D&amp;D setting and the published settings, some sort of priestly class is called for.&nbsp; Hopefully 4E includes one, for a change.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 3764988, member: 5100"] Actually, I assume that the [u]priest[/u] is archetypal because of the implied polytheistic setting in D&D. In a psuedo-Medieval setting that is a bit lighter on the "pseudo", the paladin is much more iconic. That's not what we have. D&D has moved, socially, quite a bit earlier to large Greco-Roman cities, temple districts, etc. Either way, the cleric, as written, isn't archetypal, iconic, or otherwise representative of much of anything. It's a wart of beef. It fails to represent any sort of general priest, instead leaving that to the role of less proficient (in every way) adepts. It shoe-horns any PC priest into a warrior mold. Worst of all, the healer aspect of the class has so ingrained itself into the body of D&D rules that it sucks down a broad gamut of play. People get hurt, so you need a healing mechanism for those desperate combats and so you don't feel stupid for facing the next battle with a gaping chest wound. The cleric is the only class that really heals well, so that's what is expected of it. Because good healing is a superior tactic to inferior healing, groups make heavy efforts to have a cleric with them and designers have to balance damage to assume a certain level of healing. That requires clerics to heal that level of damage or more. Which also makes it unreasonable to continue adventuring after your cleric has dumped all his healing into you. Which results in two-hour adventuring days. Which spawns a boatload of fixes, none of which seem to actually address this whole crazy healing/health thing. Thus, 4E. If 4E doesn't fix the way healing works at a pretty fundamental level, we'll end up seeing a lot of the same issues in a couple of years. I can't remember the last time my players stopped the day because the wizard ran out of spells (though, I'm sure they have). More often, they stop because the healer is done. Anyway, the shorter response to what you said is that the cleric isn't inherently an archetype in itself. But, in the implied D&D setting and the published settings, some sort of priestly class is called for. Hopefully 4E includes one, for a change. [/QUOTE]

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