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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5036252" data-attributes="member: 82106">@MrMyth OK, I understand what you guys are all on about, I missed the point of confusion entirely. There is no doubt about the time of the effect starting, but yes, its impossible to say whether the end point is defined in terms of when the hit was made or when the effect started. Take your pick. My point about wording is still valid. If the end point was supposed to be the same turn as the starting point then it could have simply said "until the end of its turn", which would perforce be referenced to the start of the effect. That would possibly indicate they really do mean it lasts 2 turns. On the other hand the power's author may well simply have not considered the ambiguity and used the most commonly encountered duration wording. In general it is at least very rare for a debuff to last more than one of the target's turns without allowing a save. In fact it may even be unprecedented. There are plenty of effects which can last more than a full round for the caster via "until the end of your next turn", but those are presumably beneficial in nature. I think that tends to indicate strongly that the intent is to have the effect last one turn for the monster. Its just a matter of the DM weighing those two factors. You might want to throw this one to CS or crosspost it to the WotC 4e Q&A forum. There are some serious rules lawyers there...</blockquote>