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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Swordmage's Decree & Hybrid Swordmages
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6035433" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The phrase used in the hybrid rules is "its target", not "a target of the Aegis". As I said above, these are not synonyms. "Its target" introduces a presupposition that there is only a single target. When that presupposition fails to hold (as in the cases being discussed in this thread), we then have to interpret the rules in a non-literal fashion.</p><p></p><p>Interestingly, the same linguistic phenomenon (in the context of the phrase "until A or B", which generates a presupposition that one of either A or B will occur in due course) was very recently discussed by Justice Gummow of the Australian High Court in a more high stakes context, namely, whether the Australian Migration Act permits the indefinite detention of refugees who have been refused a visa on security grounds, but who cannot be deported (because the only country that will take them is the country against which they have a valid protection claim): <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/2012/46.html" target="_blank">Plaintiff M47-2012 v Director General of Security</a>.</p><p></p><p>In the context of the Migration Act, Justice Gummow applied the long-standing common law principle that detention is unlawful unless clearly authorised by statute or judicial order, and hence held that - once the presupposition fails - the Migration Act should not be interpreted as permitting detention.</p><p></p><p>In the context of D&D, the stakes obviously aren't as high, and nor is there any long-standing principle to help guide our interpretation. When I suggested my interpretations upthread, the principle I had in mind was to make a Hybrid's ability equivalent to, or strictly a subset of, the corresponding normal ability. A normal swordmage can't use the Aegis-enhancing feat to get 3 targets marked at once, and so I don't think a hybrid should be able to (which seems to be the implication of the ruling that use of Aegis is regained when one target dies).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6035433, member: 42582"] The phrase used in the hybrid rules is "its target", not "a target of the Aegis". As I said above, these are not synonyms. "Its target" introduces a presupposition that there is only a single target. When that presupposition fails to hold (as in the cases being discussed in this thread), we then have to interpret the rules in a non-literal fashion. Interestingly, the same linguistic phenomenon (in the context of the phrase "until A or B", which generates a presupposition that one of either A or B will occur in due course) was very recently discussed by Justice Gummow of the Australian High Court in a more high stakes context, namely, whether the Australian Migration Act permits the indefinite detention of refugees who have been refused a visa on security grounds, but who cannot be deported (because the only country that will take them is the country against which they have a valid protection claim): [url=http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/2012/46.html]Plaintiff M47-2012 v Director General of Security[/url]. In the context of the Migration Act, Justice Gummow applied the long-standing common law principle that detention is unlawful unless clearly authorised by statute or judicial order, and hence held that - once the presupposition fails - the Migration Act should not be interpreted as permitting detention. In the context of D&D, the stakes obviously aren't as high, and nor is there any long-standing principle to help guide our interpretation. When I suggested my interpretations upthread, the principle I had in mind was to make a Hybrid's ability equivalent to, or strictly a subset of, the corresponding normal ability. A normal swordmage can't use the Aegis-enhancing feat to get 3 targets marked at once, and so I don't think a hybrid should be able to (which seems to be the implication of the ruling that use of Aegis is regained when one target dies). [/QUOTE]
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