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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8189972" data-attributes="member: 18">It could be that, but I've come across DMs who are unreasonable in terms of the amount and detail of RP/description they want.At some point, you have to accept the character is good at things that the player isn't. We take this for granted with magic, fighting, athletics, hunting, climbing a rope, spotting a trap, and so on. Just because the player is about as socially perceptive as a potato doesn't mean his character's Passive Insight (or active Insight checks) should be penalised or disallowed. Yet some DMs really do want to try and RP the entire thing out - obviously as you say this can work to your advantage in terms of avoiding rolls, but it can also pretty much invalidate some fairly serious investments in characters.I think D&D maybe excessively forces people towards attempting to talk-around rolls because as you the d20 is so swing-y. In most systems, where you either have a varied margin of success, or which are "likely to succeed but maybe at a cost" systems like PtbA or Resistance, you see more, I dunno natural description of what they character is doing, and less attempts to carefully phrase things to convince the DM to avoid a roll (something I've been very guilty of myself), which can be almost as anti-immersive as "I roll Persuasion", and much more time-consuming!All that said, this is a really broad spectrum. At one end, you have DMs who want you to basically deliver the Gettysburg Address to an NPC who you're trying to buy a couple of horses from (I really have had a DM like that - he got over it eventually thankfully and it wasn't D&D), and faaaaaaar away at the other end, you have the DM I played with a few months ago, who. Punctuated. 16. Literally. 8. Every. 13. Sentence. 21. With. 19. A. 2. Persuasion. 7. Roll. 14. It's like, for naughty word's sake, at least let me present my goddamn argument to the NPC before making me roll - you don't even know if it's any good!I would generally ask them what their argument/leverage/etc. is though, just like you'd consider the physical circumstances with a barbarian lifting a dude. You gotta get some context. There are players (including some of my players) who sometimes lapse into "I roll Intimidate", and it's like, no dude, you say what you do, I tell you what to roll.</blockquote>

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