NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8398935" data-attributes="member: 6779310">I went the other direction  -- Moldvay-Cook to Traveller. (With a brief stop at Star Frontiers between)... and from there, a large variety of others. And, as we've noted before, to the  1982 TTB and US 1981 LBB editions ... I've always seen the monster lists as non-canon for any worlds other than Mystara and Oerth (D&D Known World and Greyhawk). Until the  90's, I didn't use the settings - and I only started to use them due to running games in the Retail Play program.I see  Kriegsspiel as a vital step towards RPGs, and FK as the next.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Kriegsspiel<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">scenarios as separate from the game itself (itself an outgrowth of ideas present in training for chess by playing problems)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">hidden information - what pass for wargames in the mid-19th century - chess and it's variants and analogs, hnaftafl, and the various Prussian boardgames - were mostly perfect information; some of the scenarios were not.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Genuine representation of capability - most of the other games of the era were, not unlike Feudal, more like multiple-piece-move chess variant.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Frei Kriegsspiel<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Actions outside the list</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Referee determined modifiers in addition to or in replacement of rules-listed ones based upon the situation as described</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">hidden movement<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">first uses of three-board play (side A's view, Side B's view, and the Referee's view)</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Occasionally, settings other than historical or present. (what settings weren't mentioned in the article I read).</li> </ul></li> </ul>All of these are key elements of  several 1960's wargames - not all in the same game... not even to Braunstein, which is FK influenced....Braunstein III had hidden information, capability representation, actions outside the list (printing flyers and hiring a helicopter), referee modifiers, off-board movement (the helicopter)... but it had most. In D&D, we add the missing ones, and add the potential for all players on one side, with the Referee running a wide range of adversaries.Without Kriefsspiel, we don't get most of the 1960's wargames.Without FK, we don't get the referee free to expand the actions and modifiers lists on the fly.In both cases, the exact game isn't the important item, it's that a game with those qualities is pretty close to essential to get to something that looks D&Dish.</blockquote>

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