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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8416286" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>Not RAW. Unless there's an empty 5ft space to move into they cannot move.</p><p></p><p>It's the added context you're putting in that makes the difference. In D&D any two people standing in that 10ft hallway with any intentions at all (friendly, neutral, or hostile) completely block the path. That contradicts reality. Likewise, that a 6ft human with a 16' shoulder span completely fills a 5ft square is kinda contradictory to reality as well. Just saying.</p><p></p><p>Right. So those factors would need to be taken into account. But they're not in games like D&D. The default of system games is to check the game. Then either try to match that to reality or house rule away the contradictions. The FKR approach is start with reality and make any rules as necessary to cover the situation. Smoother, cleaner, and easier. Fewer steps, too. It's only years of playing games and internalizing their systems that hang us up. The rules get in the way of the world.</p><p></p><p>Again, it's not about their skill. According to D&D, medium-sized creatures full occupy a 5ft space and unless the creature is favorably disposed to you, it's literally impossible for you to move into or through their space. The reads to me like someone who's literally never thrown a punch or ever been punched wrote those rules. It's laughably unrealistic.</p><p></p><p>So what? Life isn't consistent. The real world isn't consistent. Things that work on Tuesday don't always work on Wednesday.</p><p></p><p>That's a distinction that doesn't make a difference. FKR play isn't about the player "understanding things fully". That's not part of the style. It's almost the opposite of the style. The point of FKR isn't to be arbitrary and random, rather to model the fiction as well as possible. The character doesn't understand things fully. The player doesn't understand things fully. Things change. Circumstances change. The DM learns more about the fiction. Sticking with a rule made a few sessions ago due to some silly adherence to consistency is anathema to FKR. For example, after the last session the DM read up on climbing and realized they made a mistake. You can either: continue to be wrong but consistent or change the rules and be closer to being right. Just know that you'll never be perfectly right as the DM. And don't expect the DM to be perfectly right as a player and you're golden.</p><p></p><p>So what? We're all human. Even the people who wrote the game systems you want to defer to. They're just people, too. They fail. Sometimes their systems fail. So why open yourself up to someone else's potential failures? What's the payoff? Consistency? Emerson had a quote about that.</p><p></p><p>So instead of talking about it here why not try running or playing an FKR game? Talking to me isn't going to convince you.</p><p></p><p>I'm completely aware. But they want to understand the rules so they can <em>game</em> them. </p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.thegamer.com/players-optimize-fun-out-of-games/[/URL]</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]7L8vAGGitr8[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>For you. For me it was liberating and amazing. The players just did what their characters would do rather than trying to find all the nooks and crannies and cracks in the game system to exploit them.</p><p></p><p>Again, I never played BITD and I've only read a very little of it. I quoted someone else and commented that FKR is the opposite of what I quoted. That wasn't a claim on my part about BITD.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8416286, member: 86653"] Not RAW. Unless there's an empty 5ft space to move into they cannot move. It's the added context you're putting in that makes the difference. In D&D any two people standing in that 10ft hallway with any intentions at all (friendly, neutral, or hostile) completely block the path. That contradicts reality. Likewise, that a 6ft human with a 16' shoulder span completely fills a 5ft square is kinda contradictory to reality as well. Just saying. Right. So those factors would need to be taken into account. But they're not in games like D&D. The default of system games is to check the game. Then either try to match that to reality or house rule away the contradictions. The FKR approach is start with reality and make any rules as necessary to cover the situation. Smoother, cleaner, and easier. Fewer steps, too. It's only years of playing games and internalizing their systems that hang us up. The rules get in the way of the world. Again, it's not about their skill. According to D&D, medium-sized creatures full occupy a 5ft space and unless the creature is favorably disposed to you, it's literally impossible for you to move into or through their space. The reads to me like someone who's literally never thrown a punch or ever been punched wrote those rules. It's laughably unrealistic. So what? Life isn't consistent. The real world isn't consistent. Things that work on Tuesday don't always work on Wednesday. That's a distinction that doesn't make a difference. FKR play isn't about the player "understanding things fully". That's not part of the style. It's almost the opposite of the style. The point of FKR isn't to be arbitrary and random, rather to model the fiction as well as possible. The character doesn't understand things fully. The player doesn't understand things fully. Things change. Circumstances change. The DM learns more about the fiction. Sticking with a rule made a few sessions ago due to some silly adherence to consistency is anathema to FKR. For example, after the last session the DM read up on climbing and realized they made a mistake. You can either: continue to be wrong but consistent or change the rules and be closer to being right. Just know that you'll never be perfectly right as the DM. And don't expect the DM to be perfectly right as a player and you're golden. So what? We're all human. Even the people who wrote the game systems you want to defer to. They're just people, too. They fail. Sometimes their systems fail. So why open yourself up to someone else's potential failures? What's the payoff? Consistency? Emerson had a quote about that. So instead of talking about it here why not try running or playing an FKR game? Talking to me isn't going to convince you. I'm completely aware. But they want to understand the rules so they can [I]game[/I] them. [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.thegamer.com/players-optimize-fun-out-of-games/[/URL] [MEDIA=youtube]7L8vAGGitr8[/MEDIA] For you. For me it was liberating and amazing. The players just did what their characters would do rather than trying to find all the nooks and crannies and cracks in the game system to exploit them. Again, I never played BITD and I've only read a very little of it. I quoted someone else and commented that FKR is the opposite of what I quoted. That wasn't a claim on my part about BITD. [/QUOTE]
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