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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 8417235" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>Optimizing the fun out of the game is basically another way of saying that dopamine is one hell of a neurotransmitter. Basically we will do what it is efficient even if it's less enjoyable. In my experience this does not go away with minimalist rules. Sometimes it's exacerbated. See Greyhawking the dungeon, playing the game of 20 questions every time you enter a room, etc. You change what players will tend to optimize, but you do not get away from human nature just because you have a lighter or even no system. Sid Meier was actually making the point that we need to design better games where what's optimal is also what's enjoyable for the player.</p><p></p><p>There are plenty of reasons to prefer more minimal games, but protecting players from their dopamine signaling generally is not one in my opinion.</p><p></p><p>My own experience with hidden rules in particular is that players will attempt to suss them out over time. In information poor environments they will look for the patterns the same way most D&D players will try to reason out a monster's AC and saves. I'm players. In information poor environments my gamer brain goes into overdrive. I enjoy that type of play in an OSR context, but to get to that place where I feel comfortable just playing my character I need a good handle on things. It's kind of like going into survivor mode.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 8417235, member: 16586"] Optimizing the fun out of the game is basically another way of saying that dopamine is one hell of a neurotransmitter. Basically we will do what it is efficient even if it's less enjoyable. In my experience this does not go away with minimalist rules. Sometimes it's exacerbated. See Greyhawking the dungeon, playing the game of 20 questions every time you enter a room, etc. You change what players will tend to optimize, but you do not get away from human nature just because you have a lighter or even no system. Sid Meier was actually making the point that we need to design better games where what's optimal is also what's enjoyable for the player. There are plenty of reasons to prefer more minimal games, but protecting players from their dopamine signaling generally is not one in my opinion. My own experience with hidden rules in particular is that players will attempt to suss them out over time. In information poor environments they will look for the patterns the same way most D&D players will try to reason out a monster's AC and saves. I'm players. In information poor environments my gamer brain goes into overdrive. I enjoy that type of play in an OSR context, but to get to that place where I feel comfortable just playing my character I need a good handle on things. It's kind of like going into survivor mode. [/QUOTE]
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