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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8417501" data-attributes="member: 42582">I am still curious as to what variety of games you have in mind.I am also curious how we have moved from genre (eg upthread I think you mentioned Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea stories) to realistic responses.In real life, if I go to sea in a leaky boat I am likely to drown. In A Wizard of Earthsea, Ged washes up on an uncharted island where he meets exiled members of a Khargad royal family. I think it reasonable for a player to want to know which rule applies in the game they are playing!In real life, I think being surrounded by foes in battle is mostly a recipe for disaster. In 4e D&D, if my paladin has Valiant Strike (+1 to hit per adjacent foe) then when I hurl myself into battle indifferent to the sea of foes I increase my prospects of striking them down - especially if they are minions.More generally, is combat brutal and visceral (eg Burning Wheel can be like that) or not (Prince Valiant is almost never brutal or visceral - the rules expressly say that PC death is normally not an important part of Prince Valiant play).Knowing how actions will be adjudicated, and how consequences will be established, and what principles will govern establishing those consequences, is pretty fundamental to playing a game.Who thinks that a book can protect anyone from anything?But rules - whether explicit or implicit - are pretty fundamental to a wide range of organised social activities.The reason for having scoring rules in soccer isn't to protect anyone from anything. It's to structure the game.The reason for having rules in Burning Wheel isn't to protect anyone from anything. It's to structure the game. The rules of BW create one play experience. It's different from playing Prince Valiant. Either is different from playing Cthulhu Dark. And all three are different from having a storyteller tell a story while taking suggestions as they go.So can the players.I mean, if I ignore the rule about robbing banks on a whim, I might find myself in serious trouble with the police and their friends! But if I ignore the rule in a RPG, what is going to happen to me? The only sanctions are informal social ones. Those sanctions operate against all participants. GMs are not in any distinct position in this respect.This implies that you think everyone who ever talked about player-driven RPGing is dishonest. Is that what you meant? Or are you simply saying that you prefer GM driven RPGing - say, the DL modules - to player driven RPGing - say, Apocalypse World played in accordance with Vincent Baker's rulebook?</blockquote>

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