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<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8424440" data-attributes="member: 7023840"><p>I realize that sarcastic one-liners denigrating people you don't agree with gets people to "like" you, but it's not particularly productive.</p><p></p><p>So, have you ever had a conversation with someone who is super into the DM (and it will be the "DM" in this case) having ultimate authority over the fiction? And you try to explain a game with player authority over the fiction? And the person responds, "Yeah, dude, but then a player will totally have his character jump over the moon. How do you stop that? Huh?"</p><p></p><p>It's aggravating, right? Because we assume good-faith play, and we assume the players are going to act in a manner consistent with the fiction. So answering repeated variations of, "But what if the player is a jerk," isn't helpful.</p><p></p><p>A fundamental issue that seems to bedevil a lot of conversations about theory, about the division of authority, and about rules in TTRPGs, is this- what happens when there is an inconsistent view of the fiction between participants in the game? How do you determine what "really happens?" There are rules, there are principles, but fundamentally you need to assume that the participants aren't jerks, right? </p><p></p><p>Well, one aspect of FKR that is both fundamental and unwritten is that the participants are <em>on the same page. </em>That there is a shared understanding of the fiction. Now, of course, the immediate retort will be- "But what if there isn't?"</p><p></p><p>Well? What if a player wants to jump over the moon? In a very real way, that's what the advertising ("It's high trust") is about. Because of that, it doesn't even matter <em>who </em>has control of any particular fiction. Which is why most FKR games have the referee as the rules authority, but with substantial player control of the fiction, but you also have a lot of FKR games that have explicit allowances for player authorship of the fiction, even to the extent of overriding the referee.</p><p></p><p>At the base of this, however, is the core assumption that you don't worry about the rules, and that you just say what you want to do.</p><p></p><p>I totally get that this isn't appealing to many people, but what I don't get is the sheer amount of vitriol this concept seems to generate.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 8424440, member: 7023840"] I realize that sarcastic one-liners denigrating people you don't agree with gets people to "like" you, but it's not particularly productive. So, have you ever had a conversation with someone who is super into the DM (and it will be the "DM" in this case) having ultimate authority over the fiction? And you try to explain a game with player authority over the fiction? And the person responds, "Yeah, dude, but then a player will totally have his character jump over the moon. How do you stop that? Huh?" It's aggravating, right? Because we assume good-faith play, and we assume the players are going to act in a manner consistent with the fiction. So answering repeated variations of, "But what if the player is a jerk," isn't helpful. A fundamental issue that seems to bedevil a lot of conversations about theory, about the division of authority, and about rules in TTRPGs, is this- what happens when there is an inconsistent view of the fiction between participants in the game? How do you determine what "really happens?" There are rules, there are principles, but fundamentally you need to assume that the participants aren't jerks, right? Well, one aspect of FKR that is both fundamental and unwritten is that the participants are [I]on the same page. [/I]That there is a shared understanding of the fiction. Now, of course, the immediate retort will be- "But what if there isn't?" Well? What if a player wants to jump over the moon? In a very real way, that's what the advertising ("It's high trust") is about. Because of that, it doesn't even matter [I]who [/I]has control of any particular fiction. Which is why most FKR games have the referee as the rules authority, but with substantial player control of the fiction, but you also have a lot of FKR games that have explicit allowances for player authorship of the fiction, even to the extent of overriding the referee. At the base of this, however, is the core assumption that you don't worry about the rules, and that you just say what you want to do. I totally get that this isn't appealing to many people, but what I don't get is the sheer amount of vitriol this concept seems to generate. [/QUOTE]
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