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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8424651" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>Exactly.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, it really is. Here, let me show you...</p><p></p><p>And there it is. Exactly. Past is prologue. There's 82 years of Batman lore to draw from. Though the few early years don't quite match up with the rest of it, there's some serious weight to the character's history. So when Batman starts acting out of character, most fans can spot it immediately. There might be things that are causing Batman to act that way the reader doesn't know yet, but unless there are unknown reasons, most fans would be right in their "that's out of character" assessment. So no, the fiction doesn't decide per se, but it does narrow the options. Thinning the field as it were. It provides expectations. Rules, if you like. </p><p></p><p>You can't have Batman suddenly start murdering people without raising more than a few eyebrows. Why? Because that's wildly out of character for Batman. Why? Because the fiction has established rules for his behavior. The fiction has established rules for how superheroes behave. We know that Batman plays the hard bad cop type in Gotham and we know that Superman plays the boyscout good cop in Metropolis. So if we put the bad cop in the good cop's city...sparks will fly. It's a situation with inherent tension. That's story and drama. Many comics have been written with less. I don't see why we'd need more to play a game of pretend.</p><p></p><p>Exactly. That's the fun of it. Not knowing. Being surprised. As PbtA games put it, play to find out.</p><p></p><p>Exactly. All established and defined by...wait for it...the fiction. The answers depend on the fiction. Is Batman in a hurry to get to the Joker and stop him from dumping those chemicals? Then he's just going to throw a batarang at the bank robber and be done with it. And of course Batman can't convince the Joker of anything. He's the Joker. Batman would have already thought of Lex taking over Wayne Enterprises and made sure it couldn't happen. Like not selling his majority share of the company. Batman has and will again in the future convince Catwoman to go straight...for a short time. But it won't last.</p><p></p><p>No, but they are telling us what our options for resolving them are. Is Batman going to get Catwoman to permanently give up crime? Nope. Never happen. Is Batman going to convince the Joker to not murder people? Nope. Never happen. </p><p></p><p>You're putting the tension in the wrong spot to make a point. The tension in those scenes isn't whether Catwoman will go straight or whether Joker drops the chemicals. It's how long she'll be straight, what kind of team ups she and Batman have in the mean time, and what will finally make her go back on her word and start stealing again. It's in how Batman manages to save the people from death despite the Joker devising a super devious but utterly insane death trap.</p><p></p><p>I know you hate it, but it depends on the fiction. If Batman says the right things, Catwoman will go straight for a time. No roll required. And no matter what Batman says, Joker will always drop the chemicals. No roll required. Batman only talks to Joker to stall and to hear the jokes to try on Alfred back home.</p><p></p><p>All absolutely viable options. If you need a mechanical resolution.</p><p></p><p>It depends on the fiction. I gave some details above.</p><p></p><p>Generally the Referee. Some FKR games have shared authority but most are strong Referee authority.</p><p></p><p>Re-roll until there's a winner or describe what a tie would look like in the fiction. Spider-Man holding webs stopping both a train full of people and his girlfriend from falling to their deaths. That seems like a tie to me. Clearly not a win as no one is saved. Clearly not a failure as no one's dead...yet.</p><p></p><p>And that's one goal the FKR is pursuing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8424651, member: 86653"] Exactly. Yeah, it really is. Here, let me show you... And there it is. Exactly. Past is prologue. There's 82 years of Batman lore to draw from. Though the few early years don't quite match up with the rest of it, there's some serious weight to the character's history. So when Batman starts acting out of character, most fans can spot it immediately. There might be things that are causing Batman to act that way the reader doesn't know yet, but unless there are unknown reasons, most fans would be right in their "that's out of character" assessment. So no, the fiction doesn't decide per se, but it does narrow the options. Thinning the field as it were. It provides expectations. Rules, if you like. You can't have Batman suddenly start murdering people without raising more than a few eyebrows. Why? Because that's wildly out of character for Batman. Why? Because the fiction has established rules for his behavior. The fiction has established rules for how superheroes behave. We know that Batman plays the hard bad cop type in Gotham and we know that Superman plays the boyscout good cop in Metropolis. So if we put the bad cop in the good cop's city...sparks will fly. It's a situation with inherent tension. That's story and drama. Many comics have been written with less. I don't see why we'd need more to play a game of pretend. Exactly. That's the fun of it. Not knowing. Being surprised. As PbtA games put it, play to find out. Exactly. All established and defined by...wait for it...the fiction. The answers depend on the fiction. Is Batman in a hurry to get to the Joker and stop him from dumping those chemicals? Then he's just going to throw a batarang at the bank robber and be done with it. And of course Batman can't convince the Joker of anything. He's the Joker. Batman would have already thought of Lex taking over Wayne Enterprises and made sure it couldn't happen. Like not selling his majority share of the company. Batman has and will again in the future convince Catwoman to go straight...for a short time. But it won't last. No, but they are telling us what our options for resolving them are. Is Batman going to get Catwoman to permanently give up crime? Nope. Never happen. Is Batman going to convince the Joker to not murder people? Nope. Never happen. You're putting the tension in the wrong spot to make a point. The tension in those scenes isn't whether Catwoman will go straight or whether Joker drops the chemicals. It's how long she'll be straight, what kind of team ups she and Batman have in the mean time, and what will finally make her go back on her word and start stealing again. It's in how Batman manages to save the people from death despite the Joker devising a super devious but utterly insane death trap. I know you hate it, but it depends on the fiction. If Batman says the right things, Catwoman will go straight for a time. No roll required. And no matter what Batman says, Joker will always drop the chemicals. No roll required. Batman only talks to Joker to stall and to hear the jokes to try on Alfred back home. All absolutely viable options. If you need a mechanical resolution. It depends on the fiction. I gave some details above. Generally the Referee. Some FKR games have shared authority but most are strong Referee authority. Re-roll until there's a winner or describe what a tie would look like in the fiction. Spider-Man holding webs stopping both a train full of people and his girlfriend from falling to their deaths. That seems like a tie to me. Clearly not a win as no one is saved. Clearly not a failure as no one's dead...yet. And that's one goal the FKR is pursuing. [/QUOTE]
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