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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8426262" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I don't have time to get to all of your post (I have to get one of my Blades' games Faction/Setting Clocks resolved and written up before tomorrow night's game..."playing the world" FitD style!), but I wanted to pull this out because (IMO) if this isn't enormously controversial, it surely should be.I also think this hooks into my DC 30...DC 35(?) 5e post from 2016 where I specifically asked folks to discuss their adjudication process of endgame Mythic Tier action declarations (genre logic or naturalistic causal logic).  That was a train wreck of utter incoherency and I feel like what you're saying above (which IMO is problematic for player's intuiting how any given instance of action declaration will be ruled upon) is related.What you're saying above (I, and everyone else, uses genre logic in real life) just makes no sense to me.  Why?  Genre logic is when a reader or a participant in a game has their orientation to a moment of fiction (either now or upon reflection or when making predictions about the future) anchored to/by the tropes inherent to that fiction.Despite the fact that naturalistic causal logic (gravity and thermodynamics and muskuloskeletal systems and energy transfer and the impact of moral hazards on social fabric) might remain exactly the same, in Swashbuckling Space Opera we expect a very different set of tropes to emerge than we do in Sci Fi Horror.  As the reader or as the participant at a game table, your inferences, intuitions, and predictions are going to be entirely different from one another.This shouldn't be particularly controversial as so much of the ire against 4e was due to the "mythic superhero logic" that undergirded every moment of play and the trajectory as a whole.  The conversations on this subject (genre disparity) are legion (despite the fact that the naturalistic causal logic of a PoL setting would be exactly the same as FR or Greyhawk or even Dark Sun etc).So to land this airplane...no, I don't use genre logic in real life.  My intuitions, inferences, and predictions aren't governed by some kind of "trope coefficient" (lets call it) whereby its significantly more likely that some naturalistic causal logic defying instantiation of an event is apt to happen (because the world is anchored to genre tropes).  When I look at a V4 Boulder (the upper boundaries of my capabilities...they go up to V17 by the way...so that should give you an idea of how utterly ordinary I am as a climber), I evaluate prospective routes based on a lot of parameters (many native to me and my abilities but many native to the nature of the nuances of the obstacle).  I have intuitions, I draw inferences, and I make predictions.  But none of those 3 are anchored to/governed by "I'm the hero of my story so I really should be able to climb this" or "falling would be anticlimactic" or "the rising action should happen right before the crux and the ascent will be the denouement" or "that vent right above the boulder is where I expect a band of ninjas to drop out" or "is that a sniper at the top of that boulder across the way...of course" or "a fall and a broken arm and then cut to my montage of my recovery process where I beat Chad the Douche Climber in the THE BIG CLIMB OFF" or "the douchey corporate lackey comes in to foreclose on the place with a big jerk smirk on his face but we all rally behind the salf-of-the-earth gym owners and raise money through car washes and lemonade stands and punt the corporate jerk to the moon afterward."My intuitions, inferences, and predictions are all grounded by a world liberated from any "trope coefficient" (sadly I might add).  Hence, no genre logic.EDIT - All of the above that I've said is why that DC 30...35 thread (and the incoherent/conflated handling of naturalistic causal logic with a collage of genre tropes) was so fraught.  If I'm a player and I think any of your (a) situation framing or (b) your credibility test handling (yes you can do that...no you can't do that) or (c) your DC adjudication (the DC is extremely hard because it indexes a normal person...the DC is between medium and hard because DC indexes mythic tier adventurers rather than the standard distributions of adult humanoids in FR) or (d) consequence handling wobbles (its naturalistic causal logic in this case...it indexes normal humanoids in that case...it indexes mythical greek tropes in that case...some opaque combination of all of it) to and fro...AND I'm reliant upon it NOT wobbling (being consistent and intuitive so I can make reliable inferences and predictions which orient me to the situation and the move-space I can feasibly or reliably make).Well, that wobble is a huge problem.</blockquote>

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