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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8426375" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>What? No. Genre is a loose collection of tropes that we recognize and label as "space opera," "horror," "fantasy," etc. "Genre logic" is simply a gauge of whether a particular story is conforming to the expectations presented by those tropes. If you label something as an alien invasion story and there's no aliens and no invasion...you've successfully subverted genre expectations, but likely not in a fun and interesting way. If you label something as a zombie apocalypse story and there's zombies...but they're new and different in interesting ways...you've successfully subverted genre expectations in likely a fun and interesting way. As above, realism is a genre. What makes realism a genre? The collection of genre tropes related to realism. What makes them realistic? The fact that they conform to reality. Reality can be seen as just another genre.</p><p></p><p>Right. But unless those tropes are specifically changed...there's no reason to assume they have been. So if there's something not covered by the sci-fi horror tropes, you can default to the realism tropes to cover everything else. To put that another way, the baseline is reality, then you pile the genre tropes you want to use on top of that. If there's any contradictions, the genre tropes win out against the reality tropes. So if you're playing swashbuckling space opera you'll expect physics to bend in places, break in others, and be exactly as we know it in the rest. FTL and pew pew noises in space. But having a 2 ton piece of metal land on you in full gravity is bad news.</p><p></p><p>Conduct an experiment with me. Treating characters in the game / genre story as real people living in a real world is one of the goals of the FKR. If we treat them as real people inhabiting a real world...what would someone in the Star Wars universe say about genre logic and their lived experience? They'd likely say much the same as you are now. The genre tropes the characters live with <em>is</em> their lived experience. They'd have no awareness of it from an omniscient outside perspective. They'd have no concept of their lived experience being "off" from "reality"...their lived experience <em>is</em> their reality. We recognize it as genre tropes because we're outside observers. If we presented our reality to them, ours would be the genre story with an off-kilter reality.</p><p></p><p>Exactly. You don't have a precise, concrete gauge of your percentage chances of making a climb.</p><p></p><p>Ah. You're conflating genre with story structure. That's not how FKR games work. There's no push for emulating storytelling. No act structure or denouement. No inciting incident or hero's journey. FKR games are solidly emergent storytelling, in my experience.</p><p></p><p>Again, I think you're conflating genre with story structure. I'm not talking about story structure. I don't assume I will prevail after a dark night of the soul...I expect another dark night of the soul. What I'm talking about is that there's no alien invasions or zombie apocalypses. There are no superheroes. Physics works a particular way and we can make predictions based on that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8426375, member: 86653"] What? No. Genre is a loose collection of tropes that we recognize and label as "space opera," "horror," "fantasy," etc. "Genre logic" is simply a gauge of whether a particular story is conforming to the expectations presented by those tropes. If you label something as an alien invasion story and there's no aliens and no invasion...you've successfully subverted genre expectations, but likely not in a fun and interesting way. If you label something as a zombie apocalypse story and there's zombies...but they're new and different in interesting ways...you've successfully subverted genre expectations in likely a fun and interesting way. As above, realism is a genre. What makes realism a genre? The collection of genre tropes related to realism. What makes them realistic? The fact that they conform to reality. Reality can be seen as just another genre. Right. But unless those tropes are specifically changed...there's no reason to assume they have been. So if there's something not covered by the sci-fi horror tropes, you can default to the realism tropes to cover everything else. To put that another way, the baseline is reality, then you pile the genre tropes you want to use on top of that. If there's any contradictions, the genre tropes win out against the reality tropes. So if you're playing swashbuckling space opera you'll expect physics to bend in places, break in others, and be exactly as we know it in the rest. FTL and pew pew noises in space. But having a 2 ton piece of metal land on you in full gravity is bad news. Conduct an experiment with me. Treating characters in the game / genre story as real people living in a real world is one of the goals of the FKR. If we treat them as real people inhabiting a real world...what would someone in the Star Wars universe say about genre logic and their lived experience? They'd likely say much the same as you are now. The genre tropes the characters live with [I]is[/I] their lived experience. They'd have no awareness of it from an omniscient outside perspective. They'd have no concept of their lived experience being "off" from "reality"...their lived experience [I]is[/I] their reality. We recognize it as genre tropes because we're outside observers. If we presented our reality to them, ours would be the genre story with an off-kilter reality. Exactly. You don't have a precise, concrete gauge of your percentage chances of making a climb. Ah. You're conflating genre with story structure. That's not how FKR games work. There's no push for emulating storytelling. No act structure or denouement. No inciting incident or hero's journey. FKR games are solidly emergent storytelling, in my experience. Again, I think you're conflating genre with story structure. I'm not talking about story structure. I don't assume I will prevail after a dark night of the soul...I expect another dark night of the soul. What I'm talking about is that there's no alien invasions or zombie apocalypses. There are no superheroes. Physics works a particular way and we can make predictions based on that. [/QUOTE]
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