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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 4669894" data-attributes="member: 177">We will work with the terms, until such time as we identify that we are talking past each other <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />First off, the base system is not just gamism and simulationism.&nbsp; You left out narrativism.&nbsp; And I think that is important.&nbsp; &quot;Adventuring&quot; is not clearly simulation - it is as easily seen as at least as much narrative as simulation...We can, however, set the details of GNS theory aside - it is only one framework after all - and step back to look at a larger picture.&nbsp; The system for an RPG must be finite for it to be usable.&nbsp; It must, in fact, be extremely finite - encompassed in just a few books.&nbsp; Compared to the breadth of published fiction, the system is tiny.&nbsp; Compared to all of human imagination, the system is minuscule.So, I'll submit that any reasonably usable game can't do everything we might want well.&nbsp; Maybe a system serves a broad gamist approach, but fails to simulate or help with narrative (like poker).&nbsp; Or maybe it games and simulates well in combat, but does neither well in social scenes, and so on.&nbsp; Or maybe it games, simulates, and narrates well in one corner of the fantasy genre, but really won't extend to other genres.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 4669894, member: 177"] We will work with the terms, until such time as we identify that we are talking past each other :) First off, the base system is not just gamism and simulationism. You left out narrativism. And I think that is important. "Adventuring" is not clearly simulation - it is as easily seen as at least as much narrative as simulation... We can, however, set the details of GNS theory aside - it is only one framework after all - and step back to look at a larger picture. The system for an RPG must be finite for it to be usable. It must, in fact, be extremely finite - encompassed in just a few books. Compared to the breadth of published fiction, the system is tiny. Compared to all of human imagination, the system is minuscule. So, I'll submit that any reasonably usable game can't do [i]everything[/i] we might want well. Maybe a system serves a broad gamist approach, but fails to simulate or help with narrative (like poker). Or maybe it games and simulates well in combat, but does neither well in social scenes, and so on. Or maybe it games, simulates, and narrates well in one corner of the fantasy genre, but really won't extend to other genres. [/QUOTE]

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