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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 4671121" data-attributes="member: 177">(Let me clarify.&nbsp; I am trying to be consistent with language in this thread, where our more casual use cold lead to misunderstanding -&nbsp; when I say &quot;game&quot;, I'm talking about the gamist bits.&nbsp; When I say &quot;system&quot;, I'm talking about the game, plus the narrative and simulationist bits.)To speak to your point - yes, but that does not imply that narration or simulation become game goals.&nbsp; As in, your success in the game need not depend on some measurement of success in narrative or simulation.&nbsp; The people writing the game part of things do certainly need to keep in mind the fact that they are working in a larger context of the whole RPG.&nbsp; And maybe some of their game mechanics directly serve narrative or simulation.&nbsp; But you can have a good system without direct service.&nbsp; Indirect, but flowing smoothly from one to the other, with similarity of themes, is sufficient.That being in my experience, at any rate.&nbsp; D&amp;D is a good example - it has always been a decent system, but the game mechanics have never done much to directly serve narrative needs.&nbsp; That has never stopped me from doing good narrative work with D&amp;D, in any edition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 4671121, member: 177"] (Let me clarify. I am trying to be consistent with language in this thread, where our more casual use cold lead to misunderstanding - when I say "game", I'm talking about the gamist bits. When I say "system", I'm talking about the game, plus the narrative and simulationist bits.) To speak to your point - yes, but that does not imply that narration or simulation become [i]game[/i] goals. As in, your success in the game need not depend on some measurement of success in narrative or simulation. The people writing the game part of things do certainly need to keep in mind the fact that they are working in a larger context of the whole RPG. And maybe some of their game mechanics directly serve narrative or simulation. But you can have a good system without direct service. Indirect, but flowing smoothly from one to the other, with similarity of themes, is sufficient. That being in my experience, at any rate. D&D is a good example - it has always been a decent system, but the game mechanics have never done much to directly serve narrative needs. That has never stopped me from doing good narrative work with D&D, in any edition. [/QUOTE]

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