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<blockquote data-quote="sinecure" data-source="post: 4675276" data-attributes="member: 37668">Player knowledge is almost universally limited knowledge in order to place players within their roles.&nbsp; GMs could potentially see all possible outcomes, the number is vast as in Chess.&nbsp; Not to mention DMs are meant to run the game not play it.Yes, like in Pinball the goal is to gain as many points as possible.&nbsp; However, most RPGs do have a top level too.True, if the GM doesn't cheat.Player group determined goals cannot really be rewarded by an RPG system without reverting to metagaming (il-legitimizing the role), but these goals may be able to be completed within one.&nbsp; The advantages gained within the game by completing the goal are usually the impetus for setting it anyways and could be viewed as rewards by the players. Rewarded point totals are a clear measure of progress.&nbsp; However, the probable outcome is always in doubt.&nbsp; Does the Player reach highest level or must they start over?I guess it could be seen as a race where the runners are in far better shape by helping each other to win making the competition less of an aspect than the completion of the race - highest level.Okay,Yes,No - Players operate jointly towards independently rewarded goals.To gain points,I'm not understanding the rest of this paragraph, but I'm guessing it's the same anwer as above, to gain points. Oofda. Group goals and individual &quot;team roles&quot; are chosen by the group and not necessary or required by the game.&nbsp; This is different than the class each player is playing, but class roles do help in synchronizing teams, if they do determine &quot;team roles&quot;.&nbsp; Exploring classes, or in other words roles players are attempting to gain points for, is done while playing.&nbsp; There is no rehearsal step. Fictional roleplaying is rehearsal, though these games don't relate much to real life.Teambuilding typically arises now from habit in the hobby, but it is also arises so each player may reach the highest level.&nbsp; This &quot;success through alliance&quot; strategy is probably the cardinal trait of most RPGs.I disagree. I think traditional RPGs are definitively games and very good ones at that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="sinecure, post: 4675276, member: 37668"] Player knowledge is almost universally limited knowledge in order to place players within their roles. GMs could potentially see all possible outcomes, the number is vast as in Chess. Not to mention DMs are meant to run the game not play it. Yes, like in Pinball the goal is to gain as many points as possible. However, most RPGs do have a top level too. True, if the GM doesn't cheat. Player group determined goals cannot really be rewarded by an RPG system without reverting to metagaming (il-legitimizing the role), but these goals may be able to be completed within one. The advantages gained within the game by completing the goal are usually the impetus for setting it anyways and could be viewed as rewards by the players. Rewarded point totals are a clear measure of progress. However, the probable outcome is always in doubt. Does the Player reach highest level or must they start over? I guess it could be seen as a race where the runners are in far better shape by helping each other to win making the competition less of an aspect than the completion of the race - highest level. Okay, Yes, No - Players operate jointly towards independently rewarded goals. To gain points, I'm not understanding the rest of this paragraph, but I'm guessing it's the same anwer as above, to gain points. Oofda. Group goals and individual "team roles" are chosen by the group and not necessary or required by the game. This is different than the class each player is playing, but class roles do help in synchronizing teams, if they do determine "team roles". Exploring classes, or in other words roles players are attempting to gain points for, is done while playing. There is no rehearsal step. Fictional roleplaying is rehearsal, though these games don't relate much to real life. Teambuilding typically arises now from habit in the hobby, but it is also arises so each player may reach the highest level. This "success through alliance" strategy is probably the cardinal trait of most RPGs. I disagree. I think traditional RPGs are definitively games and very good ones at that. [/QUOTE]

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