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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 6885987" data-attributes="member: 97077">As I play it, the DM calls for a check only when he or she thinks the outcome of the player's stated approach for the character is uncertain. So as a player, you strive to remove that uncertainty (if you can) by applying player skill so you don't have to roll. This means anyone can be successful in a social interaction challenge, not just the &quot;party face.&quot; The character's ability scores, skills, and resources (e.g. Inspiration) are just there for backup in case your best effort falls short of automatic success.If I ask for that check, something's going to happen on a success or failure. The character will either achieve his or her goal, fail to achieve it, make progress toward achieving it with a setback, or achieve it a cost. I can't see any value in asking for a check when I know the stated approach to the goal will not succeed.The most skillful approach a player can take in my view is to engage the NPC in conversation with a goal of determining his or her characteristics (traits, ideals, bonds, flaws, needs, desires, secret agendas, etc.), then using that information to deceive, intimidate, or persuade the NPC into doing what the character wants. This two-step approach is easy for anyone to follow, even if the player isn't naturally a &quot;talker.&quot; All he or she need do listen to what the DM is saying and a state a coherent goal and approach that speaks to what is already established - just like any other kind of challenge in the game.As for PC to PC social interaction, since the DM cannot determine how a player's character thinks or acts, I do not believe the DM can establish uncertainty and call for a check when it comes to a PC trying to manipulate another PC. Since the DM does determine how an NPC thinks and acts, then obviously it works differently.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="iserith, post: 6885987, member: 97077"] As I play it, the DM calls for a check only when he or she thinks the outcome of the player's stated approach for the character is uncertain. So as a player, you strive to remove that uncertainty (if you can) by applying player skill so you don't have to roll. This means anyone can be successful in a social interaction challenge, not just the "party face." The character's ability scores, skills, and resources (e.g. Inspiration) are just there for backup in case your best effort falls short of automatic success. If I ask for that check, something's going to happen on a success or failure. The character will either achieve his or her goal, fail to achieve it, make progress toward achieving it with a setback, or achieve it a cost. I can't see any value in asking for a check when I know the stated approach to the goal will not succeed. The most skillful approach a player can take in my view is to engage the NPC in conversation with a goal of determining his or her characteristics (traits, ideals, bonds, flaws, needs, desires, secret agendas, etc.), then using that information to deceive, intimidate, or persuade the NPC into doing what the character wants. This two-step approach is easy for anyone to follow, even if the player isn't naturally a "talker." All he or she need do listen to what the DM is saying and a state a coherent goal and approach that speaks to what is already established - just like any other kind of challenge in the game. As for PC to PC social interaction, since the DM cannot determine how a player's character thinks or acts, I do not believe the DM can establish uncertainty and call for a check when it comes to a PC trying to manipulate another PC. Since the DM does determine how an [I]NPC[/I] thinks and acts, then obviously it works differently. [/QUOTE]

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