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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4089021" data-attributes="member: 22779">I believe that you do have a point.  We did play without minis for the most part back then because the combat system was so abstract that adding minis wouldn't have added anything to the game.  Beyond, "I attack this orc or that orc" there were no tactical decisions to be made in those systems during combat by anyone other than perhaps the casters.Where I believe you are mistaken is the idea that this is somehow preferable.  That players do not welcome tactical complexity in the game.  I believe that you are wrong there and that players actually do want a degree of tactical complexity.  The popularity of 3e speaks volumes to that.----------------------Looking at Pramas' blog again, I'm struck by where he says that 4e plays like a CCG without the collectable aspect.  This gets right to the heart of what I'm talking about with hot buttoning topics.  Saying that a version of D&D plays like MtG is fighting words.  People are going to react strongly to it.But, stop and think for a second.  What does he actually mean?  A CCG without the C?  So, it plays like a card game?  4e plays like Euchre?  Oh, he means that it gives numerous strategic choices to the player outside of actual play, same as building a deck.  But, why use these terms?  There are any number of other games that allow strategic choices outside of the game - I pointed to Battletech earlier.  You can customize your mechs to achieve a certain style.  Why not say it plays like Battletech?Or any number of another games where you can make these sorts of decisions?The only reason I can think of is grandstanding.  He points to something that lots of people don't like, says, Hey, this is like that, so everyone nods and says, well, heck, I guess it really is bad.  It's trying to win marks in an internet debate.  If you have a specific criticism, it should not require you to use hot button terminology in order to make your point.</blockquote>

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