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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4093877" data-attributes="member: 22779">Why are you ignoring the fair number of counter arguments to this specific issue brought up in this thread?  I mean, we're specifically talking about the idea of D&D 4e as boardgame are we not?  I posted a fairly lengthy list of why I feel that this appellation is inaccurate.  Yet, you focus on nomenclature and ignore the meat of the issue. No, I have not cherry picked anything.  I brought up a list of reasons, and others have as well, as to why calling 4e a board game isn't valid.  No one has come close to refuting that, least of all you who hasn't even bothered actually attempting to address the topic.Look at another issue.  The 1-2-1 issue that has made rounds.  Now here, we have a very valid criticism of 4e.  The criticism, as far as I can make out, goes something like this, "4e changes the geometry of the battlemap and introduces a much larger margin of error into the game."Now, that's true.  That's a valid criticism.  It really does do that.  The question then remains, is that margin of error acceptable or not and now we're into the realm of opinion and it gets all sorts of messy.  But, it most certainly does not invalidate the original criticism.But, and now we return to the issue at hand, what does 4e looks like a boardgame mean?  Does it mean that we're going to have heaps of fun for hours at a time playing a game that can be replayed for years to come?  Because, that describes a lot of board games to me.  Or, does it mean that we're going to be lockstepped down into meaningless choices, mindlessly circling a board where nothing ever really changes?Neither interpretation really fits.So, what do people actually mean when they say that 4e is board gamey?  Instead of using vague language that just leads off into mindless grandstanding, why not make actually, specific criticisms and leave off the hot buttoning?  Why are people actually defending vague language?  It's intellectually lazy at best and down right inflamatory at worst.  Why do it?  Why not actually saw what you mean?</blockquote>

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