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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5527999" data-attributes="member: 54877">Do something to attract them into the room.&nbsp; That is, you need some carrot along with the stick.&nbsp; As previously mentioned, a monster that is blasting them from long range with serious damage is a stick that says, &quot;move&quot;.&nbsp; Making such monsters with abilities or environment that makes them hard to hit at range, but easy to slaughter in melee is a big carrot.&nbsp; &nbsp;If you want to really drive this point home, put such monsters way back in a chamber, and then block the chokepoint with brutes and a soldier--two rounds after the fight starts.&nbsp; Using chokepoints is strategic, and you would like for your players to be smart.&nbsp; But it is not smart to say, &quot;chokepoint, stay there and block it,&quot; every time without studying the situation.&nbsp; Rather, you want to see if blocking the monsters off of your squishies is more important than the monsters blocking the party off of their squishies.&nbsp;The only way to drive that home against habitual &quot;turtles&quot; is to make both situations extreme for awhile so that they get used to making a conscious decision instead of turtling by default.&nbsp; Since they already turtle by default, you'll need to be particularly extreme with the situations where they should want to move in but the monsters try to block them.&nbsp; Mix that in with some fights with no bottlenecks to keep from going insane during the habit-breaking phase. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/angel.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":angel:" title="Angel&nbsp; &nbsp; :angel:" data-shortname=":angel:" />&nbsp;BTW, the analysis is the same for the party that always blindly rushes in.&nbsp; Only difference is that with such a group you want to focus on the other extreme.&nbsp; But it is the same problem--strategy by habit instead of thought.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5527999, member: 54877"] Do something to attract them into the room. That is, you need some carrot along with the stick. As previously mentioned, a monster that is blasting them from long range with serious damage is a stick that says, "move". Making such monsters with abilities or environment that makes them hard to hit at range, but easy to slaughter in melee is a big carrot. If you want to really drive this point home, put such monsters way back in a chamber, and then block the chokepoint with brutes and a soldier--two rounds after the fight starts. Using chokepoints is strategic, and you would like for your players to be smart. But it is not smart to say, "chokepoint, stay there and block it," every time without studying the situation. Rather, you want to see if blocking the monsters off of your squishies is more important than the monsters blocking the party off of their squishies. The only way to drive that home against habitual "turtles" is to make both situations extreme for awhile so that they get used to making a conscious decision instead of turtling by default. Since they already turtle by default, you'll need to be particularly extreme with the situations where they should [B]want[/B] to move in but the monsters try to block them. Mix that in with some fights with no bottlenecks to keep from going insane during the habit-breaking phase. :angel: BTW, the analysis is the same for the party that always blindly rushes in. Only difference is that with such a group you want to focus on the other extreme. But it is the same problem--strategy by habit instead of thought. [/QUOTE]

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