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General Tabletop Discussion
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Tactics And Combat In Fantasy RPGs
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7720864" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Thing is, this was a red herring argument even in 4e when you had AEDU structures. There was absolutely nothing stopping you from going outside your class defined actions and in fact, 4e actually actively supported (unlike pretty much any other edition) doing so with Page 42 guidelines. The idea that you can only do what was on your sheet was edition warring balderdash. It simply wasn't true.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Part of tactics is being able to accurately predict your odds of success. Unless it's the only possible option, no one chooses an option with a very low chance of success. Not when there are other options that have higher chances of success that are still viable. So, to use your example, if pushing the orc off the tower requires three separate checks, each with a 50% chance of failure (a ridiculous example, but, bear with me), no one is going to do it when they could just stick their sword in the orc and have a much better chance of success.</p><p></p><p>And the problem with leaving everything in the DM's hands is that very, very few DM's are good at judging risk vs reward. If swinging across the room from a chandelier costs you more than you could benefit from doing it, no one does it. And, very often, when it's left up to the DM, options that are not rules defined are generally not taken.</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=30518]lewpuls[/MENTION] even mentions the idea that stealth is something you do with the aid of magic. Why? Well, because using magic means that the DM isn't coming up with off the cuff rulings and your chances of success and failure are known. A group that doesn't have access to those magic items simply doesn't do the stealth stuff.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair enough. But, they also have hard modes too. Shouldn't games cater to everyone?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7720864, member: 22779"] Thing is, this was a red herring argument even in 4e when you had AEDU structures. There was absolutely nothing stopping you from going outside your class defined actions and in fact, 4e actually actively supported (unlike pretty much any other edition) doing so with Page 42 guidelines. The idea that you can only do what was on your sheet was edition warring balderdash. It simply wasn't true. Part of tactics is being able to accurately predict your odds of success. Unless it's the only possible option, no one chooses an option with a very low chance of success. Not when there are other options that have higher chances of success that are still viable. So, to use your example, if pushing the orc off the tower requires three separate checks, each with a 50% chance of failure (a ridiculous example, but, bear with me), no one is going to do it when they could just stick their sword in the orc and have a much better chance of success. And the problem with leaving everything in the DM's hands is that very, very few DM's are good at judging risk vs reward. If swinging across the room from a chandelier costs you more than you could benefit from doing it, no one does it. And, very often, when it's left up to the DM, options that are not rules defined are generally not taken. [MENTION=30518]lewpuls[/MENTION] even mentions the idea that stealth is something you do with the aid of magic. Why? Well, because using magic means that the DM isn't coming up with off the cuff rulings and your chances of success and failure are known. A group that doesn't have access to those magic items simply doesn't do the stealth stuff. Fair enough. But, they also have hard modes too. Shouldn't games cater to everyone? [/QUOTE]
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