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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arrowhawk" data-source="post: 5705518" data-attributes="member: 6679551">No it doesn't.  It says "you fail many times."  There is nothing the in the rule that says you fail "19 times in a row" and succeed on the very last roll.  You're just making that part up.  What I will concede given Greenfield's Postulate is that you do have 19 failures....by virtue of Take 20 giving you every number on the die.  They just aren't assumed to happen consecutively.   However, I can see how you can come to this interpretation...if you ignore the trade-off.  But as others have noted, that interpretation is exposed as incorrect when you consider the probability of two people taking 20 and needing a combined 40 to succeed.  Allowing that to happen in 20 attempts would be "silly."Do what Greenfield suggests:Roll two d20s and keep track of rolls in two columns.  In Column A...every time you get a single 20 on either die...mark which roll it occurred on.In Column B, every time you get double 20's, mark which roll you got it on.Do this until you get ten double 20's.  Then, come back and tell us how many rolls you averaged between single 20's and double 20's.EDIT:You've thrown this out twice now and it evidences either your unwillingness or inability to connect the dots on this rule.   Why isn't the time requirement d20?  Because if you were actually rolling, it could take you 100 tries to get a single 20.  Twenty rolls doesn't guarantee you a 20, so why would you limit the time to do it to a random d20 roll?   By suggesting a a d20 roll would mean that you believe the player would always get a 20 within twenty attempts and were' just rolling to see which attempt it occurred on.  So the player would get the benefit of having gotten the 20 sooner than twenty-one rolls, but would never face the penalty of what happens if it took LONGER than twenty rolls.   It is more equitable to just charge a flat tax of twenty attempts and concede success at some point within those attempts because it's not important when you actually rolled it.</blockquote>

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