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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Coredump" data-source="post: 917423" data-attributes="member: 6939">Celt Not quite. Not finding the trap isn't a *penalty*, it just isn't a *benefit*. The question is was it worse to try and fail, or the same as not trying?  ie. try and jump a cliff; try and fail is worse than not trying. *that* is a penalty.You are *not* guaranteed to set off a trap by not finding it, you don't take damage from not finding it, you could just turn around and go home. Same as if you never tried to find it.To paraphrase Hong: Is there anything stopping them from rolling over and over regardless of the results? If not, they can take 20.Riga Haven't you ever lost something?  I was looking for a computer game in my office, and I was trying my best. But I didn't find it; so I started looking again, and again. I even came back later and looked again. Apparently I finally rolled high enough, since I found it. Athletes/craftsmen/gameplayers/writers/etc. are always trying their 'best'; yet sometimes they perform better than other times.  So, when you look for your keys, you only spend 6 seconds? (per 5' square of room) And if you don't find them, you assume you did your 'best' and stop? Now, I agree; to save from metagaming, the DM could roll behind a screen each time. The player would never know why he didn't find anything.And if the player said "I 'know' something is here, I keep looking until I find it" (ie role-play speak for 'take 20') then the DM says "Well, you have been searching for 15-20 minutes, and you find nada.... what'cha wanna do now?"</blockquote>

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