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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8997451" data-attributes="member: 83242">Actually, I am going to disagree with you hear a bit.Actually, I lot of people talk about how good 4e monster design was (a bit exaggerated IMO) and in particular Threats from the Nentir Vale. I do agree that book is probably the high water mark, or close to it, for 4e monster design.I would say the monster math was improved, but not "nailed down." At high levels and for solos, the monsters were terrible under powered. Blog42 did a great article on this: how, relatively speaking, epic level 4e monsters were weaker than heroic tier 4e monsters. The math is pretty straightforward and MM3 only helped very slightly. I used the revised monster level damage in blog42 for my 4e monsters and they ran much better.Actually, by MM3 they back away from the roles a bit. You will notice the changed the monster math so the roles were mechanically (from a numbers standpoint) more similar. I don't know that they really added many abilities that made them better suited to their role either. They typical had those from the get go, IIRC.I do agree the variety between different types of dragons was superior in 4e, with 1 caveat: You get that and sometimes more when you consider the lair actions 5e provides for each dragon type.Not really. In a lot of ways 5e dragons are mechanically superior to 4e dragons.  Overall, I think they are about on par.Legendary actions / mythic actions / legendary resistance / mythic trait are arguably better for solo play than the 4e solos which got 2 action points, and one "instinct action" by MM3 to deal with action economy and lock-down. If you include 5e lair actions, and you should, 5e dragons are likely superior than 4e dragons (and this is without including spellcasting variants). With all the options turned on, 5e dragons have superior action economy and lockdown prevention to 4e dragons, and similar type differention diversity</blockquote>

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