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<blockquote data-quote="UngainlyTitan" data-source="post: 8551725" data-attributes="member: 28487">[USER=6871653]@vincegetorix[/USER] Too many things to track, IMHO. Also all track, are a death spiral.[USER=6685541]@BookTenTiger[/USER] Hit points in modern D&amp;D is plot armour. It can be thought of a fight stamina, a resource that, when you run out of it, you loose a fight. There is a feeling that once a character is reduced to zero hit points they should have some king of wounded condition. Which is why there are a lot of proposals to introduce wounded or other conditions on characters that go unconscious and there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the bobbling fighter, that is down and up every other turn.So the real question is: How do you decide when a fight is lost? And what should be the fate of the PCs as losers of a fight.I think that hit points are pretty good at determining when an individual character is out of the fight. It is what happens next that tends to be narratively unsatisfying. Lingering wound systems tend to be unsatisfying because, if they are severe they tend to lead to death spirals. If they involve permanent damage that reduces fighting effective, people do not what the because they see themselves playing John Rambo/John McClane or some other such character type that keep going no matter how bloodied.In a movie or story when things go wrong the characters run away, but can you get that in and RPG, in general, much less in D&amp;D? 40 years of D&amp;D and video games has trained the player base otherwise?I think if you were to do that, it would have be explicitly built into the rules, and need player buy in.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UngainlyTitan, post: 8551725, member: 28487"] [USER=6871653]@vincegetorix[/USER] Too many things to track, IMHO. Also all track, are a death spiral. [USER=6685541]@BookTenTiger[/USER] Hit points in modern D&D is plot armour. It can be thought of a fight stamina, a resource that, when you run out of it, you loose a fight. There is a feeling that once a character is reduced to zero hit points they should have some king of wounded condition. Which is why there are a lot of proposals to introduce wounded or other conditions on characters that go unconscious and there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the bobbling fighter, that is down and up every other turn. So the real question is: How do you decide when a fight is lost? And what should be the fate of the PCs as losers of a fight. I think that hit points are pretty good at determining when an individual character is out of the fight. It is what happens next that tends to be narratively unsatisfying. Lingering wound systems tend to be unsatisfying because, if they are severe they tend to lead to death spirals. If they involve permanent damage that reduces fighting effective, people do not what the because they see themselves playing John Rambo/John McClane or some other such character type that keep going no matter how bloodied. In a movie or story when things go wrong the characters run away, but can you get that in and RPG, in general, much less in D&D? 40 years of D&D and video games has trained the player base otherwise? I think if you were to do that, it would have be explicitly built into the rules, and need player buy in. [/QUOTE]

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