Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5711480" data-attributes="member: 11300">But the point is the difference between dropping into the negatives in 4e is mechanically different than dropping into the negatives in 3e. [and yes in my experience a character will drop into the negatives more often in 4e than 3e, but more characters seem to die in 3e than 4e.]In both 3e and 4e, if a PC is hp-wise in the positives, they are still functioning at capacity. Even a fighter with 200hp knocked down to 1hp is functioning at capacity so any damage that they have taken is inconsequential enough not to affect them. As such scrapes, bruises and if "bloodied" in 4e, then the odd cut or splash of blood is appropriate too. The character is at capacity but "under pressure".In 3e a character in the negatives has taken a major wound. Why? Because if completely untended the character mechanically speaking will much more than likely die (I mathematically described this upthread). As such, as DM I feel compelled to describe a potentially fatal injury and certainly not one that the PC can easily recover from. If magic heals the character, so be it but the mechanical foundation for describing a serious wound is already there. In 4e the situation of a character going into the negatives is far muddier, to the point where the DM is far less certain (to the point of being completely uncertain) what the effect is of the damage taken. Because of the randomness of the 3 saves mechanic, the wound could be fatal; or it could be one easily recovered from. As such, going into the negatives is kind of like stunning in 3e, except a more deadly version because it could be fatal. 4e does not compel me as the DM to describe a serious wound and in fact prefers that I don't because the PC could be back in the action next round through non-magical means (this in fact is particularly analogous to 3e stunning). As such, a character going into the negatives in 4e is required to be described differently; they are just "out of it" for a little while unless they start failing saves which muddies the waters of describing what exactly is happening to the PC. Even a PC close to their negative hp limit can't exactly be described to have a serious wound. The only time I would feel compelled to describe something more serious is if the PC had no surges left. But even then this is muddied because the PC can be at capacity within a day. I leave it up to your own sense of flavour whether this situation is "heroic" or "absurd".And thus the mental strain that you describe on characters 1 to 30 in 4e is simply not there. They have never really taken a serious wound! The DM has never been given sufficient mechanical justification to describe one.In 3e with characters 1 to 20, the mental strain most likely is there but going into the negatives in my experience happens less often than 4e so it is not like every combat (I think Hussar is in line with my thinking of about once a game session providing that the game session is one focused on perilous adventuring). The characters that usually end up in the negatives are the frontline fighters. As in 4e the thing that makes such classes special (and particularly tough) is that they can mentally handle the strain of getting seriously wounded (if of course a PC in 4e could ever be seriously wounded). In game, it is normally a case for a humorous sally by the barbarian that his mangled arm is "just a flesh wound". A wimpy wizard in the same situation might still be whimpering like a baby - but this is all up to how one roleplays their character as there is no mechanical support for this in either 3e or 4e (and neither do I think would we want there to be).As such, I don't quite seem to have the hang-ups you do in regards to the resulting narrative in this regard with 3e while with 4e, it causes me when DMing an element of confusion and an uncomfortable lack of clarity when describing damage because of all of the above. Chalk it up to different playstyles and how we rationalize the mechanics of the game differently.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

Verification