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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5712874" data-attributes="member: 957">I agree that there ARE better systems than ANY D&D edition, including 3E/Pathfinder, for modeling wounds.However, the point is that 4E has every issue 3E has and has the surge issue on top of it.I find 3E's HP system to be acceptable and, more importantly, I find the 3E overall system, HP included, to be excellent.If you were to take the 3E system and change nothing whatsoever but add surges, I would no longer be interested in the game system.*  We are talking about surges here and they are a radical change to the system.  And being ok with prior systems while still finding surges to go completely into an unacceptable place is an entirely reasonable opinion.But to say you don't agree with the fundamental difference can only mean that you are unable to grasp the point being made, or you are simply unwilling to fairly discuss it.  It is like saying that you can't see that 15 is bigger than 8 just because 23 is bigger than either.  Or, IMO, it is like saying because a burger is a little overdone, pouring arsenic on it won't make it any worse.  There are huge differences.* - Yes, I would still play with good friends.  But I'd know better options were out there.  The point is purely about comparing systems.</blockquote>