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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5713308" data-attributes="member: 957">So why are you arguing?I've readily agreed that not caring is a perfectly valid opinion.Can't you just allow the same?No, you have made a fundamental mistake here.I don't "like HP as wounds".  And if I did 3E would completely fail for me just as it, apparently, does for you.I like HP as a combination of BOTH wounds and other abstract elements.4E says: "Nope, all abstraction"Some system out there with HP as pure wounds = fail  (I'm unaware of this actual system existing, at least anything close enough to the D&D type to be relevant)Some system out there with HP as pure Abstract = fail (4E)Some system out there with the freedom to work both abstract and wounds from the same HP pool = win (3E/PF)Again, there is a fundamental mistake.You are saying the "outcome" is everything and because the outcome defines "made entirely" the difference is meaningless to you.You don't have steps (2) and (3) in your game.  But you absolutely have steps (1) and (4, aka "the outcome").  If someone tried to produce a TV show or write a novel in which characters just jumped from (1) to (4) it would be considered completely absurd.  And you are STRONGLY reinforcing the "board game" stereotype so often placed on 4E.  When you say that "outcome" is everything and reject my embracing of narrative continuity you are discarding the VERY THING that makes RPGs such an awesome hobby to me. The story is EVERYTHING to me.  And narrative continuity throughout is mandatory for that.I enjoy Descent and I enjoy Wrath of A, etc...  But those game tend to sit on my shelf and gather dust between playings.  I actively play D&D about once every two weeks.  But I spend time developing stuff for D&D almost most every day.  And the creative immersion in the story, being inside the world and the characters, is what it is all about.  When I do play Descent, abstract disconnect are fine.  There is a pale aura of "roleplaying" on the character I select and I certainly get into a different mindset when I'm playing and arcane type character vs a melee smash type character.  But it is just a shadow of what I get from real RPGs.  And it is fine because when I do play those games, that is what I want.  I'm in a "board game" mindset, with a little RPG dressing.  And when you say that only the outcome matters and the continuity between the start and end doesn't, then you are exactly describing what it and always has been, to me, the difference between an RPG and a board game.  And it is cool that you don't care.  A lot of people have zero interest in either, a lot of people love board games and don't care for RPGs.  My goal is not REMOTELY to claim I'm doing anything better than you are.  Have fun.  That is everything.But the point is, what you are talking about doesn't even address what I am talking about.</blockquote>

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