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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5713451" data-attributes="member: 957">No.  All you have done is give a terrible straw man example and try to beat on that.  A 10th level character can heal 10 HP overnight.  Hit points for a 10th level fighter are typically on the order of 90 - 100.  (10 +9*6 + 3 (for Con)*10 = 94)If a DM described a 10 point wound to a 10th level character as a "serious gash" then THAT would be "stupid".  And the rest of your post really just builds on this totally flawed assessment of both 3E and my point. Ok, so first a question: Do you allow surges during battle?Yeah......That's kinda been beat to death already.....Though, of course, the surge defenders seem to be deeply trapped in overplaying that hand.  As has been pointed out, even the 4E DMG advocates describing ACTUAL physical harm.  And it has always been understood that it is BOTH physical and "metaphysical".  Where the surge defenders keep going wrong, as you have here, is trying to the quickly sidestep from "it is both" into "never had much to do with "health".  It has absolutely had much to do with health ("physical") AND had much to with abstract ("metaphysical")What is your reason for a fighter's surge to heal the PHYSICAL part of wounds?Do you insist that no hit point damage may ever be described as a PHYSICAL wound?Do you insist that fighters can make physical wounds vanish in mid combat?Surges force you to select one or the other.Wrong. What you are describing is ALREADY captured by the very physical/metaphysical combination of hit points.  A fighter who is seriously wounding keeps fighting just as you describe.  But in 3E he still has wounds which, sooner or later WILL REQUIRE medical attention.  When the 4E character "digs deeper" his wounds NEVER require any further consideration.  They have been in ALL WAY removed.Again, looks at books and TV, characters get seriously wounded and fight on all the time.  It is a total cliche.  That is the "digging deeper" part and it has always worked well in every edition of D&D.Then, in books and TV, after the drama is over, the character gets medical aid.  Again, this has always worked in pre-4E D&D.  But in 4E there is no reason whatsoever to get medical aid.  "Digging deeper" which always existed as "ignoring wounds" has now transformed into "making wounds vanish".Not relevant.  The point that he may only be able to make 40% of his wounds vanish because he already made some wounds vanish earlier today, so now he has to wit until tomorrow to vanish the rest of hsi wounds does nothing whatsoever to resolve the breakdown that he is making wounds vanish.Again, digging into reserves is already covered in the very concept of hit points.  You are bait and switching the basis for hit points for the basis for hit point restoration.And you are BADLY selling 3E short there when you suggest that any new doors have been opened up.  As established, a seriously wounded 3E character can be told to "stop sniveling" if that is the way you want to go about it.  Ok, if you are fine with a fighter alone in the woods making any and all combat damage go away, then by all means, play what you want.But you have completely failed to even begin to show how surges fit the heroic fiction model I have described.(Also, what if the fighter has no bandages or food?  Do you deny surges?)</blockquote>

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