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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pentius" data-source="post: 5713647" data-attributes="member: 6676736">I imagine it has something to do with me being bullheaded, though I'll point out I was trying to discuss a somewhat different issue with BRG before you brought it up again.Alright, sorry.  I misunderstood your position.  You like a mix of wounds and abstraction.  I can actually work with that style myself.  It takes a bit of narrative tap dancing, in any edition, but it can work.  What 4e does differently is that it introduces mundane healing that basically needs to be healing your metaphysic HP.  4e still allows for magic healing of physical wounds, it just doesn't happen when a buddy shouts at you.  Basically, it puts the idea that a character might have physical wounds but max HP(he's low on physical HP, but high on metaphysical HP) to the forefront, making it happen more often.  This could happen in old editions, too, though, like D'Karr's example with the rogue.You are misunderstanding me.  I care about how characters get from (1) to (4).  I like to have it narrated.  If I didn't, I actually would be fine with HP as wounds, it's when the narration of the middle bits happen that problems crop up with that.  I also find they crop up with some interpretations of HP as partially wounds and partially abstract.  I need my narrative continuity, too.  I am not saying I don't.  So that is not the outcome I am talking about.The outcome I am talking about is that if I go through steps (1),(2),(3) and (4) with HP as wounds, or certain usages of HP as part wound/part abstract, the narrative will not work for me, I will feel a disconnect with it, regardless of the presence or lack of surges.  If I go through all those steps with HP as full abstract, or a more bendy(brain-farting on a better word) application, the narrative will work fine for me, again regardless of whether this is 1e, 2e, 3e or 4e we're doing it in.  That outcome, of whether following all narrative steps produces a narrative I can accept, is the outcome I care about.  That outcome is the one surges don't affect, for me.  When I say I do not see them as a fundamental change to the narrative use of HP, it is because the narrative paths I find untenable in 4e are ones I already found untenable in 3e, and the paths I find tenable in 4e are ones I was already successfully using in 3e.</blockquote>

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