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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5713828" data-attributes="member: 22779">It's pretty rare for the party to blow through their magic healing and STILL have someone in the negatives though.Additionally, you are saying that a character who is down healing surges is the same as a character with full healing surges, if their HP is the same.  That's just not the way the mechanics work.  Surges ARE HP.  Being down three surges, while having full HP, is not the same as being completely healed.-----------However, we do appear to have a new challenge that I'd like to address. Well, perhaps challenge is the wrong way of saying it.  I think what you're saying is that you have no problems with the narrative limitations of 3e and you do have them with 4e.  Because both systems have narrative limitations where it becomes problematic to narrate an event in one edition or the other.  For example, using the original example in this thread:The troll attacks Sir Billingsley and scores a hit!  Its claw slams into your head, ripping your helmet half off.  Sir Billingsley collapses in a heap, his face awash in blood.  The rest of the party attacks the troll, forcing it back from their fallen comrade.  Sir Billingsley's eyes flicker open as he stares groggily at the ceiling of the cave. The troll begins ripping into the rest of the party but they manage to stand their ground.  Sir Billingsley rises up, shakes his head and growls, "Have at thee foul beast!" and charges, slamming his sword into the midsection of the creature.  Spinning around, he slams his shield into the troll, the sword sliding free with a sucking sound as the troll, blood streaming from a broken nose staggers back from the blow of the shield.Mechanically:  The troll knocks Sir Billingsley into negatives with its attack and Sir Billingsley falls prone.  The rest of the party attacks.  Sir Billingsley makes a Death Save, rolling an 18, however, since he's human, he spends his Heroic Surge and raises that to a 21, allowing him to spend a healing surge.  However, since he made a saving throw, that's the end of his round.The troll attacks the party and the party attacks the troll.  Sir Billingsley spends a move action to stand and then a standard action to charge.  He then spends an Action Point to make a Shield Bash attack (fighter Lvl1 At Will) that hits the troll, forcing it back one square.Now, let's see you narrate that in 3e.  Since no character can ever recover from being at negative on his own and continue the same encounter, you cannot have this scene in 3e.So, no, 3e does not do everything that 4e does.  Now, if you don't want to have this sort of scene in D&D, fair enough.  3e will do that for you.  However, if you want this scene in your game, then the cost is lasting wounds.</blockquote>

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