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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5714220" data-attributes="member: 48965">Woah, what? I have to disagree with this, there is a big mechanical difference in how 3.x/PF and 4e approach 20 points of damage mechanically... especially when magical healing is taken out of the equation. First let me address the fact that even though it keeps getting stated that there are no mechanical effects for the loss of hp before you go into negatives... this is untrue... again especially if magical healing is removed from 3.5/PF. In 3.5 if my Fighter has 100 max hp's and looses 20hp's in an encounter...without magical aid his ability to survive the next encounter is very much impacted mechanically... he is going into that encounter with 20% less of the staying capacity he would normally have... how is this not a mechanical effect (though I will admit it is abstract). If in that second combat he takes another 15 points of damage he is now at only 65% of his total staying capacity to survive the next encounter... and so on. Thus the character actually does have a mechanical disadvantage because he has taken damage.  In 4e however until I use my last healing surge and then loose HP's on top of it... my staying capacity in any and all combats will start at 100% whenever I've had a previous 5 mins of rest... regardless of the amount of damage my character has taken.  IMO, the reduced staying capacity is abstractly modelling you being wounded or hurt whether physical. moral or whatever (because you are at a mechanical disadvantage in combat when you're hp's start below max) without falling into the trap of a death spiral mechanic.  4e, on the other hand, takes this to an even more abstract level by making one only suffer a tangible mechanical disadvantage after you run completely out of HP's and then out of healing surges... IMO, there is a big difference here mechanically, so no... they aren't the same.</blockquote>

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