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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5714625" data-attributes="member: 11300">I actually highlighted this in an earlier post in that there are two type of narratives that go on and I actually thought this was the tacit understanding throughout the thread. The immediate narrative (call it the in the moment description) and the overall or eventual narrative. Let's take the troll case as an example where Sir Bill is hurt, knocked down and "out of it".In terms of the immediate narrative, in 4e he is in danger of dying as the three strike situation is undetermined. In 3e you could mirror this by keeping it in the positives but the blow was a critical one and thus forced a massive damage roll (again potentially being lethal). In both cases, he is in immediate peril of losing his life. However, he does gets up. Mechanically, he makes his save in 4e and his fort save in 3e and recovers from the stunning. He then goes on to whomp the troll's arse in both versions.In terms of the eventual narrative, we know that the blow was not fatal and so all that is required is to have Sir Bill out of it for a bit which both JC's and yours replicate.And so with a slight tweak, (the massive damage save) the immediate narrative (or description) is in alignment while the eventual narrative was already the same anyway. Of interest, when people are referring to "narrative", I think they are normally talking about the eventual narrative, and when they say description, I am thinking the immediate narrative. Don't burn JC for getting out the dictionary on this one, as the motive seemed only to clarify a confusion and certainly not to attack anyone. I think the tension between "narrative" and "description" is part of the reason why reasonable people on this thread have not been able to reasonably agree on something quite reasonable. Kind of like when that that that that that is referring to is different to the that that some people though that that that actually was [if you can follow... five thats in a row that make grammatical sense... that must be a record or something].Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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