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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5719523" data-attributes="member: 11300">I just realised that you have most likely preserved your sanity in some way by not reading your whole way through this thread. Looking back at my post, the important context here (that I have held to throughout the discussion but only inferred rather than explicitly stated again) is the issues I have with 4e when going into negative hit points. In other words, when a character is not only bloodied but knocked out and in peril of death. I have no issue with the use of healing surges be they mundane, magical or otherwise if the PC has a positive number of hit points and in fact believe that they add something to the game under these circumstances that has not been supported in earlier editions (my very first 4e character was a warlord for that reason; to play around with this narrative space as a player). And so the only assumption I think I have made in my reply to you is within the context of a character going into the negatives and how surges are used and restored under those circumstances and the dance as DM I have to do to not describe something that could be contradicted by events not yet determined. Generally in 3e (despite some major issues I have with healing and hit points in general there), I did not have to be quite so conservative with my descriptions. If you can read your way through the thread, you will garner the best understanding of my thoughts and understandings on the matter. Otherwise, a context of "when going into negatives" will have to suffice. Does this assist?In the positives, I agree <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />, in the negatives 4e gives me some unwanted headaches. Essentially the problem is this:- Character goes into negatives and they are unconscious. How confident am I of describing a serious wound? [It is the narrative space taken up by serious wounds that are not fatal that is in question here. 3e partially supports this while 4e RAW in my experience and understanding offers no mechanical support or justification for serious injury].- Lets say I pull out the serious injury description because the PC has gone pretty deep into the negatives. In 3e if left completely alone without any healing assistance, the PC has an incredibly likely chance to die because they have 3 sets of hoops to dance through as mentioned earlier in the thread to avoid death. From this perspective, I feel almost obliged to describe a serious injury. In 4e if left completely alone, the character is either going to die pretty quickly (3 fails before a 20) or they are going to be able to save, second wind and completely recover, or short rest and fully recover within as little as 6 hours extended rest. Because I might not have the fabric of magic to hide behind, if I do describe a serious injury, there's a good chance that my description is going to get contradicted (particularly with a warlord present).Now I can hide behind a further description of "the injury wasn't as bad as what you all feared" once or twice but to have to do this every single time it happens starts to feel like a glitch with the rules. The narrative range of damage descriptions that can be completely ignored within 6 hours to a day is not that much (and certainly less than 3e). In practice in 3.x, I feel a much wider spectrum of damage descriptions is available, not only because of the raw mechanics but also through the abundance of powerful healing magic (and the complete unobtrusiveness or practical non-performing of mundane healing). While the overall narrative of such consistent magical healing is not exactly to my taste either, it does give me the scope and confidence as DM to describe a wider range of injuries - which was the point of this thread, where as the other thread was more focused on a dislike of surges. Again, does that help explain my thoughts?I have an open mind so if you can show me something that points to ways out of this that I have not thought of, I'm all ears. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />That it is... and then you have a cold day like today and forecasts of high 30's for next weekend. The weather just seems all over the place at the moment. (I live in Picnic Point and work in Ingleburn by the way so my weather experiences might be a little skewed compared to yours but heh).Thanks anyway for the continued discussion.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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