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<blockquote data-quote="MThibault" data-source="post: 589119" data-attributes="member: 7971">Well, you could use a slightly more complex rationale and say that the check is to see if you know the answer, or can figure out the answer based on what you know.&nbsp; So if you roll, you are going for straight recall and might pull an obscure piece of info out of the air with a good roll, but if you are taking 10 you are gathering together everything that you can remember on the topic and adding it up.&nbsp; The check basically is your best estimate of the answer.&nbsp; I would give a circumstance bonus (+2) if you spend an hour trying to puzzle it out: &quot;So if the Duke's grandfather's name was Draconis, and his wife's family comes from the south, where the heraldry favors fields of colour over patterns, then this coat of arms with the dragon on an azure field is quite possibly that of the Duke or of one of his children.&nbsp; Hmmmn, oh yes, the bend sinister argent, is over top of the dragon so it is a difference so it can't be the Duke... but which child?&nbsp; How many did he have again?&nbsp; Lesse, there was... etc.&quot;&nbsp; An hour or so later he figures out that the coat of arms held by the defeated knight is that of the Duke's third son.&nbsp; Mechanically, he's taken 10 on his Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) check with a bit of a circumstance bonus for taking a lot of time to work it out.&nbsp; So his check of 10+4 ranks +2 circumstance bonus will make the DC15ish check for knowing the answer to a Basic question.I don't allow Take 20 with a access to a library, but I do allow daily retries.&nbsp; If the library were not indexed at all or had no librarian to point to the books or subjects you were interested in I only allow bi-daily retries.&nbsp; If you get lucky you will put your hand on the book you need that first day, if you aren't lucky you are just adding to the pieces of the puzzle until it all comes together in your mind.Of course all of this is still horribly oversimplified:&nbsp; you always know when you have the right answer and when you have the wrong answer (I wish I had that superpower).&nbsp; So I don't think that any usable system could satisfy anyone in all situations.Cheers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MThibault, post: 589119, member: 7971"] Well, you could use a slightly more complex rationale and say that the check is to see if you know the answer, or can figure out the answer based on what you know. So if you roll, you are going for straight recall and might pull an obscure piece of info out of the air with a good roll, but if you are taking 10 you are gathering together everything that you can remember on the topic and adding it up. The check basically is your best estimate of the answer. I would give a circumstance bonus (+2) if you spend an hour trying to puzzle it out: "So if the Duke's grandfather's name was Draconis, and his wife's family comes from the south, where the heraldry favors fields of colour over patterns, then this coat of arms with the dragon on an azure field is quite possibly that of the Duke or of one of his children. Hmmmn, oh yes, the bend sinister argent, is over top of the dragon so it is a difference so it can't be the Duke... but which child? How many did he have again? Lesse, there was... etc." An hour or so later he figures out that the coat of arms held by the defeated knight is that of the Duke's third son. Mechanically, he's taken 10 on his Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) check with a bit of a circumstance bonus for taking a lot of time to work it out. So his check of 10+4 ranks +2 circumstance bonus will make the DC15ish check for knowing the answer to a Basic question. I don't allow Take 20 with a access to a library, but I do allow daily retries. If the library were not indexed at all or had no librarian to point to the books or subjects you were interested in I only allow bi-daily retries. If you get lucky you will put your hand on the book you need that first day, if you aren't lucky you are just adding to the pieces of the puzzle until it all comes together in your mind. Of course all of this is still horribly oversimplified: you always know when you have the right answer and when you have the wrong answer (I wish I had that superpower). So I don't think that any usable system could satisfy anyone in all situations. Cheers. [/QUOTE]

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