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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5304796" data-attributes="member: 92305">I know you meant this in semi-jest, but it brings up two procedural issues with the game that I've got to get a handle upon. First, your line, "Roll a spot check." I don't really want my players rolling spot checks.  Why?  It alerts them that something is there or might be there.  If they fail the check, they're wondering why I had them roll a spot check.  So, they're pulling weapons and looking around and being more careful than they should be because they didn't notice anything with the failure. So...I want to figure a way around that.  I thought maybe Taking 10 would do the trick.  But, maybe I need to have them roll spot checks for no reason, just to keep them on their toes and not know when the check is "for real".  Or, maybe I need to have them all roll spot checks--about twenty times--to be recorded and used at a later date.  Then again, maybe I should just roll them behind the screen. How do you guys handle these types of checks without tipping off the players when they shouldn't be tipped off? For example, if you've got that goblin ambush set up, and none of the PCs make their Spot check roll, you want to surprise them with the ambush, right? Not tip them off to it, right? How do you prevent tipping them off?      Second, your Taking 20 example brings up another issue that can be hard to handle.  The Taking 20 result occurs after two minutes, and it is successful.  But, the gobbies, seeing the human stair their way, decide to launch the attack after the human has stared their way for only 30 seconds. So, really, played correctly, you've got to interrupt the player's turn.  You can't complete it and tell him what he's seen--because the gobbies are going to launch the attack when they see one of their quarry get suspicious and look their way. But, it's counter intuitive to not give the player a result when he says, "I'm going to Take 20 on this task.  What do I see with my 32 spot check?" Technically, you need to say, "You stare off to the south, searching the road and the bush, not seeing anything, when an arrow zooms past your head!"  Then, play out the surprise round. What you want to do, though, is complete the player's action and give him an answer, "You see the goblins hiding out in the bush, staring back at you, drinking their potions..." I guess this is more of a DM discipline, but how do you guys tend to handle this sort of thing?</blockquote>

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