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<blockquote data-quote="Retreater" data-source="post: 8150452" data-attributes="member: 42040">I do. I won't play a suboptimal character. I'd rather see them die and make another character. I won't bring in an 11 Intelligence wizard because I think it would be funny. My wizard is going to be effective. I'm going to blast stuff, provide battlefield control, and bring useful utility magic to save the skin of my party.I won't bring in a fighter who uses a sap exclusively because I won't be able to defend the party against the terrible foes who will kill them.I won't play a cleric who can't heal effectively because he has low Wisdom. I won't play a bard who refuses to grant buffs to the party.Players who bring in characters who stink for their own entertainment are selfish, and I don't want to sit at a table with them.Now there is a big gray area between &quot;my character is ineffective&quot; and &quot;my character is optimized to the point of being cheesy.&quot; I'm not going to fuss about 1 point of damage or something like that. But your character needs to be able to fulfill their role in the party. Especially in PF2. There is no wiggle room in the math. If you don't have the required AC for the level, you're going to be a liability for the party.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Retreater, post: 8150452, member: 42040"] I do. I won't play a suboptimal character. I'd rather see them die and make another character. I won't bring in an 11 Intelligence wizard because I think it would be funny. My wizard is going to be effective. I'm going to blast stuff, provide battlefield control, and bring useful utility magic to save the skin of my party. I won't bring in a fighter who uses a sap exclusively because I won't be able to defend the party against the terrible foes who will kill them. I won't play a cleric who can't heal effectively because he has low Wisdom. I won't play a bard who refuses to grant buffs to the party. Players who bring in characters who stink for their own entertainment are selfish, and I don't want to sit at a table with them. Now there is a big gray area between "my character is ineffective" and "my character is optimized to the point of being cheesy." I'm not going to fuss about 1 point of damage or something like that. But your character needs to be able to fulfill their role in the party. Especially in PF2. There is no wiggle room in the math. If you don't have the required AC for the level, you're going to be a liability for the party. [/QUOTE]

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