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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8165225" data-attributes="member: 6778210">You're losing your +4 to hit, but others are getting a +1. It's a tradeoff: while you're still not getting everything you want, a +1 to the Fighter is more likely to crit, as well as the mage's spells and anyone else acting on that character.I mean, the assumption was that the Ranger was still good at ranged combat. The thing was that he meant to show they were only good at ranged combat, and thus that was the optimized option. But again, characters are so broadly stat-ed out that it's hard to not have some secondary option. Charisma skills can debuff characters for the rest of the group (or for yourself with Feint), and using Recall Knowledge can help strengthen the group by pointing out weaknesses to exploit: for example, an Ogre's Will Save is +5, which (at 5th level), should be fairly easy for anyone who is Trained in a Charisma skill to abuse.Also those buffs will help the Party: they only take one action, and a third attack is generally a harder pull than using something that isn't effected by MAP. Giving others in the party better chances to hit on their subsequent actions (as well as possibly increasing their critical chance) is a huge force multiplier.But there are, they are just dependent on the build and situation. That's the problem here: you have to actually build out a character to figure out what they are good at and what options they have.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 8165225, member: 6778210"] You're losing your +4 to hit, but others are getting a +1. It's a tradeoff: while you're still not getting everything you want, a +1 to the Fighter is more likely to crit, as well as the mage's spells and anyone else acting on that character. I mean, the assumption was that the Ranger was still good at ranged combat. The thing was that he meant to show they were [I]only good [/I]at ranged combat, and thus that was the optimized option. But again, characters are so broadly stat-ed out that it's hard to not have some secondary option. Charisma skills can debuff characters for the rest of the group (or for yourself with Feint), and using Recall Knowledge can help strengthen the group by pointing out weaknesses to exploit: for example, an Ogre's Will Save is +5, which (at 5th level), should be fairly easy for anyone who is Trained in a Charisma skill to abuse. Also those buffs [I]will [/I]help the Party: they only take one action, and a third attack is generally a harder pull than using something that isn't effected by MAP. Giving others in the party better chances to hit on their subsequent actions (as well as possibly increasing their critical chance) is a huge force multiplier. But [I]there are[/I], they are just dependent on the build and situation. That's the problem here: you have to actually [I]build out a character[/I] to figure out what they are good at and what options they have. [/QUOTE]

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