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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7706477" data-attributes="member: 37579">Just musing about my thoughts on the various adventures included. Against the GiantsThis is an odd choice, as it was semi-updated for 5e already with Storm King's Thunder. I'm not sure what WotC was thinking with this. It doesn't even really have an "end" as the drow element likely won't be included. The level range might have been a factor, but several of the I series would have been the same level range, as would The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. Thumbs downDead in ThayAnother odd choice, as this one is was already published for 5e, albeit for the playtest. This doesn't so much need an "update" as a couple monsters. Did they need something appropriate at this level range? I was disappointed by Dead in Thay as it was supposed to be the conclusion of the Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle plot, which was kinda/sorta continued in Scourge of the Sword Coast. But then that story just sorta went away and didn't really have a satisfying end, making Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle less interesting and more problematic. If they were going to reprint Dead in Thay, they probably should have just done a big Dreams of the Red Wizards storyline that combined all thee of the above, fixes the story issues, fills in the level gaps, and has an actual frakking ending.In defence of this inclusion, it was never physically printed before. Being originally available on the defunct D&D Classics site, and now on the <a href="http://www.dmsguild.com/product/128515/Dreams-of-the-Red-Wizards-Dead-in-Thay-DD-Next" target="_blank">DMsGuild</a> and <a href="http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/128515/Dreams-of-the-Red-Wizards-Dead-in-Thay-DD-Next" target="_blank">DriveThruRPG</a>. And a Copper/Electrum seller, it's only really moved 300 or so copies on those two sites. So there are a lot of gamers who have never seen this adventure. Thumbs downForge of FuryI imagine this and Sunless Citadel are the first, safe attempt at viewing 3e adventures and content as classical adventures or seeing how nostalgia there is for these books. This way they can see if they should look to other 3e adventures for inspiration or as the sources of storylines, or just focus on 1e.The <a href="http://www.dmsguild.com/product/3737/The-Forge-of-Fury-3e?it=1" target="_blank">DMsGuild</a> description says "It distinguishes itself less for truly innovative dungeon and encounter design than it does for providing a good, solid, old-school adventuring experience." Which is something of an ironic as most of the classic dungeon craws were old-school for the innovative and creative dungeons. This seems very much in line with my experiences with past Rich Baker adventures: so-so encounters and bland dungeons. But the uneven encounters and challenging fights do make it sound nice and old school. Although this will be far less challenging in 5e if done straight: ropers are far lower in CR.Thumbs upHidden Shrine of TamoachanOne of the few here I've actually played part of. Never made it out of the first level and I think I missed most of the little bonuses and extras. The inability to sit and rest in the lower levels made this tricky. This is a solid choice for this product, being well known yet not as iconic, and having a different tone and aesthetic that would make it harder to include as a singular storyline. And there's less of a "villain" to build a story around. Thumbs upSunless CitadelA safe choice. Not the best first level adventure ever, but one of the few that's dungeon based (unlike Keep on the Borderlands). And as I said earlier, this is likely the first, safe attempt at viewing 3e adventures as "classics" or "nostalgic".As the first adventure of 3e, a lot of people played this, so it has a strong appeal to play again or for experienced gamers to use as an introduction for new players. It might be be the most played adventure here, rather than most-heard-about or most-read. With a Tiamat killing story in the can there's two adventures that end with "kill a big ass dragon". An Ashardalon storyline doesn't seem as strong a choice. While reimagining the first 3e "adventure path" into a much more consistent storyline and less episodic mess would be interesting (and even desirable) that would have to be many years in the future, so it's safe to just do these now. If they decide to return to Ashardalon later, they can start with The Speaker in Dreams. (Or just do the much more interesting Dragon Mountain.)Thumbs upTomb of HorrorsThis mean we're unlikely to see a Return to the Tomb of Horrors storyline. Which is fine. I imagine this product exists because they needed to do something with classics like that or Hidden Shrine or White Plume Mountain, but couldn't turn them into full storylines of their own. So this is a way to just take those off the board all at once. This way they're not trying to do a Tomb of Horrors storyline where you run around from level 1 to 10 doing unrelated things before trying to attempt a demilich lair battle at level 13.This adventure is a bit of a mess with it's illogical solutions to "puzzles". Where the solution to the "puzzle" isn't signalled anywhere. There are no clues and you either need to succeed through brute force (either definition). I'd actually pay good money to see this dungeon with better solutions that rewards creativity rather than just weird luck and having the exact right spell prepared. And a little more margin for error in the traps, where you have a round or two to consider a solution before death.  Let's face it, Tomb of Horrors is full of traps. Not traps for the characters, but traps for the players. All of the players, as there are plenty of DM traps here as well. This is a dick module that makes the person running it a dick. Tumb dependant on executionWhite Plume MountainLike the Tomb of Horrors, this one depends on the execution. If it's presented as a straight update, or tweaked and revised to conform to modern adventure design. I've run this and found it to actually be rather terrible. It was a writing sample and it shows. It's the apex of illogical dungeon design. There's no consistency, no reason for the dungeon to exist, and only the flimsiest pretense at a "plot", as if someone designed a dungeon via madlibs or a random dungeon generator. It's an example of how not to design a dungeon. It's less a singular dungeon that you can just drop into play and more a series of chambers and rooms that you can pull out and use in your own dungeons.Unlike Tomb of Horrors, I'm not sure this can be redeemed through better phrasing of the puzzle solutions. It's just too much of a mess.Thumbs downThe big catch with this product is while there are few gamers who have played all these adventures, there are likely few who haven't played at least one. That makes it less desirable as a 1-14 storyline adventure.And the fact of the matter is, people who haven't played Tomb of Horrors or Against the Giantshave NOT done so because it wasn't available. It was available for every prior edition - often in multiple formats - and updating adventures isn't hard. People chose to play other adventures. While these adventures have been updated before, and it does kinda make sense to update them again, I'm not a fan of this coming at the expense of a storyline adventure. But, with the seeming limit of three books per year and this being a poor fit for the fall accessory product, I don't suppose there was an alternative. In theory this will introduce new players to these "classic" adventures. Allow a new generation to read these products. It will be interesting to see how this product does. I'll pick it up for review purposes for my blog, but I'm not sure it will ever leave my shelf after that...I'm curious to see what the Adventurer's League is doing now for this season. Since there's not a lot of side stories or adventures that can be told about this. I imagine - like Curse of Strahd - the Neverwinter MMO isn't doing much with this adventure. WotC has kinda settled into a "big story/small story" rotation in that respect. The Winter story gets less digital support and so far has generally been a retreat of a classic: Temple of Elemental Evil, Castle Ravenloft, and now this. While the summer storyline is different and more "new" but also larger in scope, tying into stuff like Acquisitions Incorporated (and now Force Grey), convention play, Neverwinter, and the like.</blockquote>

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