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Message: <blockquote data-quote="PolterGhost" data-source="post: 5289273" data-attributes="member: 92697">I think the main issue that Withdraw has is that it falls under the "6 second round" issue.  The biggest problem with Initiative and keeping track of Rounds is that most players and DMs avoid the fact that even though the rules explicitly state that all action is happening at the same time, everyone takes turns as if it was a game of Final Fantasy."Well, my ATB came up, so now it's my turn to attack or run."Well, that's very true, it is your turn.  The issue is that in this simulation, everyone else is moving at precisely the same time you are, they just haveA. Better/worse reflexesB. More/less of a grasp of the combat around themC. (Exactly as above) Higher/lower Initiative order.The reasoning behind AoO AFAIK is that the character is performing something that's mostly unfeasible in a fencing situation (Concentrating on the movements and chant of a spell while simultaneously parrying and dodging blows, walking out of a fencing match to focus on another task, encroaching upon your opponent to try to get a hold on them, etc.)  Forcing a hustle into the equation while acting as a defence maneuver does start to stretch things.Though, there is one situation in which it can fully work:LLewellyn, the party's Evoker, is being attacked by a Dolgrim.  He tries to bat away blows with his staff to the best of his ability while trying to stay far the hell away from the Dolgrim.  Suddenly, the beast is stopped as Magni, the resident dwarf Ranger, interposes himself between the retreating Llewellyn and the monster, and suddenly Llewellyn has time to think and breath while out of the way of danger.Because I don't feel like using quote tags,"This brings up your concept of hustling. It's kind of funny  because in my worlds all characters, unless specified or appropriate to  the situation, are always considered to be hustling in combat. This is  based on the concept that a creature cannot realistically walk his  movement and make a truly effective attack."Fact is, people won't be bouncing around a battlefield, especially in the Chainmail-inspired D&D.  If they were always in a state of such action, they'd be tired within a minute.  However, if your idea of a hustle is to make quick darting movements hither and thither, well, that's accomplished rather well by attack rolls, AC, and hp, hmm?When you're fencing, your character can move around within any part of their 5 foot square, and it can be believable that they can move into other squares for a short second period to dodge or attack.  When you make your Move and Standard strike, you're looking for an opening to attack the opponent while keeping your guard up.  They might throw a quick swing or feint towards you to get you to leap back or hold your blow.  Obviously, you won't be leaping back twenty feet or dashing to the top of a nearby boulder with your Move action while you're busy fighting someone- That's where you drop the matters and hustle and put your focus into what you're doing.Of course, if you do want people to do 30 foot jumps across the plain of battle, then you could play Exalted.So yes, I see your point, and I don't mind five-foot step+move.  Obviously, the point of this discussion is to prove why Withdraw is in the game and what it does for simulation.  I think I've provided enough examples to give a semi-decent viewpoint on the subject.  It's not perfect, but trying to keep things in perspective can be that way.  IIRC, AD&D before 3.0 never had double moves to begin with, so perhaps keeping them out of the game is for the best...but I do like combat options, especially if I'm a fleshy guy and I need a meatwall right then and there.</blockquote>

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