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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4713249" data-attributes="member: 4937">I wonder if there is a division not just between those who were raised on fairy tales and fables, but between those who started out in 1st edition and those who started in 3rd edition.In 3rd edition, all animals had animal level intelligence - Int 1 or Int 2.  In 1st edition, there was no such clear distinction between the intelligence of animals and those of other sorts of creatures.  The smarter sorts of animals had 'low' intelligence, which was the same intelligence expected of the less intelligent sorts of demihumans.  My ideas that animals would talk if they could, or do talk to members of their own kind, was firmly rooted in 1st edition (and seem generally supported by some aspects of 3rd edition despite the 'animal intelligence' distinction).In the real world, animals display a wide range of intelligence up to and including those of 3 or 4 year old human children (with special limitations like limited literacy or numeracy).  I was never happy to say that the intelligence of spiders, cows, rats, ravens, dogs, parrots, dolphins, and chimpanzees were exactly the same.  I don't see a particular reason why animals like ravens, octopi, cats, dogs, elephants, parrots, dolphins, and apes shouldn't have intelligences in the range of 3-7.  Intelligence 1 should be preserved for insects, amphibians, and probably all or most fish and reptiles.  Intelligence 2 should be most birds, most herbivorous mammals, and any thing but a bird or mammal that seems to show some problem solving ability (jumping spiders, some snakes, cuttlefish, etc.).  Intelligence 3 should probably be most omnivore mammals and small carnivores including birds and perhaps a few smarter herbivores.  Intelligence 4 should be intelligence on the range of raven, most parrots, cats and octopi.  Intelligence 5 should indicate something with the intelligence of a dog, elephant, or dolphin.  Animals that approach or in limited ways equal human intelligence like gray parrots, gorillas, chimpanzees should have intelligence 6.  Among smarter species, there is probably room for intelligence plus or minus one, so a very smart gorilla might have intelligence 7.I have no problem with 'talking animals' at least in a limited sense in the real world, much less fantasy.</blockquote>

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