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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 1693412" data-attributes="member: 8461">Part of the problem we're seeing in defining these terms is that the terms changed between 2E and 3E.In 1E and late 2E, &quot;devils/baatezu&quot; and &quot;demons/tanar'ri&quot; were specific subtypes of creatures native to, respectively, Baator/The Nine Hells and the Abyss. These creatures were considered subtypes because they had commonalities in their powers, and because they had the ability to rise in &quot;rank&quot; over time...a low-hit dice creature could become a high-hit dice creature given enough time.In 3E, things changed. &quot;Devil&quot; was different from &quot;baatezu&quot;, and the same for &quot;demon&quot; and &quot;tanar'ri&quot;. Now, a devil was any creature native to Baator/the Nine Hells, and a demon was anything from the Abyss. Baatezu and tanar'ri were sub-categories of those terms now. Likewise, apparently the ability for these creatures to gain new forms of their respective subtypes seems to have been lost as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 1693412, member: 8461"] Part of the problem we're seeing in defining these terms is that the terms changed between 2E and 3E. In 1E and late 2E, "devils/baatezu" and "demons/tanar'ri" were specific subtypes of creatures native to, respectively, Baator/The Nine Hells and the Abyss. These creatures were considered subtypes because they had commonalities in their powers, and because they had the ability to rise in "rank" over time...a low-hit dice creature could become a high-hit dice creature given enough time. In 3E, things changed. "Devil" was different from "baatezu", and the same for "demon" and "tanar'ri". Now, a devil was any creature native to Baator/the Nine Hells, and a demon was anything from the Abyss. Baatezu and tanar'ri were sub-categories of those terms now. Likewise, apparently the ability for these creatures to gain new forms of their respective subtypes seems to have been lost as well. [/QUOTE]

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