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<blockquote data-quote="irdeggman" data-source="post: 2895228" data-attributes="member: 16285">All right let's look at this way.If we are ignoring the range requirements and using the text under &quot;target spells&quot; to supecede the text for ranges then the following condition exists.Cure Light Wounds is a targeted spell with a range of touch. If we say that the rules under Target or Targets supecede this by the bolded text then a player can say that &quot;If I can see my target then I can cast Cure Light Wounds on them, I don't need to &quot;touch them&quot; sicne the text says that I must be able to &quot;see&quot; or &quot;touch&quot; them.Hyp and I are not disagreeing about the fact that the text under taget does not supercede the text for ranges, only what contitutes a range. Basically he is saying that touch is within the range of &quot;ragned&quot; spells (i.e., short and longer distances).Some people believe that the text under targets supecedes ranges - this is the falicy. The text under targets includes all of the ways a targeted spell can be delivered and not that one method overrides or replaces another one. Some spells are deliverable by touch and some are deliverable via sight.Now the basis of your discussion stated out with dismissing &quot;touch&quot; range spells (palcing it into house-rules or out side of the RAW in the first place) then it went on to discuss the 50% miss chance for &quot;groping&quot; (the word used under blind) - but the RAW has no rules for a miss chance unless there is an attack roll to be made. Please find me the RAW text that covers a non-attack miss chance.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="irdeggman, post: 2895228, member: 16285"] All right let's look at this way. If we are ignoring the range requirements and using the text under "target spells" to supecede the text for ranges then the following condition exists. Cure Light Wounds is a targeted spell with a range of touch. If we say that the rules under Target or Targets supecede this by the bolded text then a player can say that "If I can see my target then I can cast Cure Light Wounds on them, I don't need to "touch them" sicne the text says that I must be able to "see" [i]or[/i] "touch" them. Hyp and I are not disagreeing about the fact that the text under taget does not supercede the text for ranges, only what contitutes a range. Basically he is saying that touch is within the range of "ragned" spells (i.e., short and longer distances). Some people believe that the text under targets supecedes ranges - this is the falicy. The text under targets includes all of the ways a targeted spell can be delivered and not that one method overrides or replaces another one. Some spells are deliverable by touch and some are deliverable via sight. Now the basis of your discussion stated out with dismissing "touch" range spells (palcing it into house-rules or out side of the RAW in the first place) then it went on to discuss the 50% miss chance for "groping" (the word used under blind) - but the RAW has no rules for a miss chance unless there is an attack roll to be made. Please find me the RAW text that covers a non-attack miss chance. [/QUOTE]

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