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Message: <blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 2216364" data-attributes="member: 30610">Weren't you asking for a rationalization, rather than a rules citation? I fail to see how it's irrelevant. Maybe Ray of Enfeeblement just alters reality in a such a way that the victim produces less force when he flexes his muscles, rather than altering the composition of said muscles. You're telling me it absolutely doesn't, and that you can be absolutely certain that it doesn't. How do you know that? Are you Boccob, or Mystra?If you don't like my rationalization, that's one thing, but to argue that my rationalization unequivocally does not work is ludicrous.Something is a penalty or damage if it is a penalty or damage.  Your argument that all things must fall into those categories, when you yourself have pointed out that there are things that do not fall neatly into those categories, is counterproductive.  It is akin to saying that all slippery surfaces must have water, or else not be slippery, and that some "decision" must be made about it, when you already know that oil exists and can make surfaces slippery without itself being water.</blockquote>